Talk:José Paranhos, Viscount of Rio Branco/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:30, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I will review this article. Please give me 7 days. If during this time you do not reply to my suggestions, the article will be failed. I am here to work with you to give it GA status. Cheers! Meishern (talk) 20:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

---

INTRO

Please explain this sentence in the intro : "Rio Branco's work in the press regarding the threatening armed conflicts...". So he became a journalist after the dissolution of the Liberal Party? It is confusing. Rephrase it somehow to make it understandable to average reader please. Cheers! Meishern (talk) 21:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Montevideo (capital of Uruguay) ---> merge this into 1 link. Meishern (talk) 21:16, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Word 'captaincy', please link it or explain it to average reader. Meishern (talk) 21:22, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Look. Let me give you some advice. Take the next three days. Re-read the article focusing on the grammar and sentence structure of this article. Look also at the neutrality of the article. I read about 1/3 of it, and unless I spend hours rephrasing, there is no way I can pass this for GA in its current form. Please don't take this personally. There are a lot of sentences that for a better term are 'awkward'. There is a lot of POV here. Statements like "The star of Aureliano Coutinho soon faded". You also write strange things as "His childhood was simple and without luxury" yet you also write "His family was wealthy". Please take some time to look at this article from neutral point of view of someone who never heard of this man or know anything about Brazilian politics in the 19th century. Clean it up. I will help you. But I cant re-write 20% of the article. Cheers! Meishern (talk) 21:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Response I have gone over the article again, and have tweaked it to read better in several places. As to your specific points:

• Yes, Rio Branco returned to being "a journalist after the dissolution of the Liberal Party". However, that is not the point of the sentence, which introduces the sequence in the remainder of that paragraph. The sentence merely states that it was Rio Branco's work in journalism which attracted the attention of Carneiro Leão. The lead section is a summary, and this sentence relates to the "Platine War" subsection. I have done a minor edit to the sentence, though I'm not sure that it addresses your confusion.
• Piping both a word and a following parenthetic phrase—i.e., Montevideo (capital of Uruguay)—is awkward at best, and vague/nonspecific at worst. The term "Uruguay" has a previous wikilink. I may be misunderstanding your point.
• There is now a wikilink to the word "Captaincy".

Your assertion that the article is PoV is baseless. If you are aware of mainstream dissenting viewpoints, such new information can always be added. However, as the article now stands, it reflects the references cited and is representative of historical consensus I've come across to date. • Astynax ^talk 20:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dont worry about what I say now. Dont take it personally. Thanks for the wikilink to captaincy. My goal is to get this GA, and if I am being a bit rough, its just to keep the standards high. I appreciate the clarifications you made in other places. Now 5th graders can follow the flow of the article, and that is one of my goals. Cheers! Meishern (talk) 20:21, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

---

Somewhere in 1st section you wrote "To help support his education, Paranhos gave private lessons to his colleagues". Can you explain what kind of lessons? fighting, math, etc... Meishern (talk) 20:21, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

The author does not says what kind of lessons. He taught to his friends what he and they were learning in the Military Academy. What exactly it was, we do not know. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 20:25, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok... maybe rephrase it to make it stronger. Another point, Naval School sounds a bit weak, Naval Academy perhaps? What do you think? Meishern (talk) 20:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Fine by me. --Lecen (talk) 20:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

BY the way if you dont like the way I rephrase some of this, feel free to change it. Once I get through this, I will re-read it once more. Meishern (talk) 20:34, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

---

courtier faction.

"At the time, Aureliano Coutinho was the most powerful figure in national politics. He was the leader of the "Courtier Faction", a group which had established influence over the young and inexperienced Emperor Dom Pedro II."

link cautinho, pedro ii. was he emperor of Portugal or Brazil? never knew Brazil had an emperor. i am weak on south american history. Meishern (talk) 20:59, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

José Maria da Silva Paranhos, Viscount of Rio Branco (March 16, 1819 — November 1, 1880) was a statesman, diplomat, teacher, journalist and monarchist of the Empire of Brazil (1822–1889). Rio Branco was born in Salvador, in what was then the Captaincy of Bahia. His family was wealthy, but he lost almost all his fortune after his parents' deaths early in his childhood.

He was born in the Empire of Brazil and lived in the Empire of Brazil. --Lecen (talk) 21:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Just noting here that I will be taking over the review, and looking at the article over the next week. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 01:22, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Lecen and I are still here to help if you have any questions. • Astynax ^talk 01:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I got caught up in another GA review, one of an article even bigger than this. That's finished, so I can now review this. Due to the size, I'll review the article by sections. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 05:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Lead

• No issues. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 04:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Early years

• "This unpopular decision caused him to loose respect among his peers and ruined his business" lose. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear}

• I restored the original wording there, as it was more than "losing respect". • Astynax ^talk 18:04, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

• That reads a lot better now. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Early political career

• Does Aureliano de Sousa e Oliveira Coutinho have an article to lin kto? From how he sounds it's rather surprising he doesn't.

• There doesn't seem to be anything currently on the English Wikipedia, only the Portuguese. • Astynax ^talk 10:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• "who was backed by a strong political power base—," since there's dashes the comma isn't needed

• Fixed. • Astynax ^talk 10:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• The last paragraph of the Courtier Faction almost seems to get tangential. It's certainly interesting and provides background, but Paranhos' relation to it isn't entirely clear. was he forced out as well?

• I've added a sentence to hopefully give a better sense that he lost his influence when his party lost power. The rebellion which quickly followed sealed the Liberal Party's downfall (and any hope of a political resurrection for Paranhos). • Astynax ^talk 10:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• "On 23 October 1851 he decided to take [39] Paranhos as his Secretary" that ref seems in a rather random place, or maybe it's just me. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 04:15, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• You are correct, the footnote at the end of the sentence will cover it. Removed. • Astynax ^talk 10:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Conservative Party

• "The new government was faced with a major challenge" feels a bit jarring jumping from the previous sentence; reword a bit. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 05:15, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• I've moved this down into the next paragraph, which details the actual challenge. • Astynax ^talk 10:17, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Diplomat

• "Long after his father's death and after Brazil had become a republic, the junior Paranhos would go on to a distinguished career as Minister of Foreign Affairs. He has come to be regarded as one of the nation's greatest heroes due to his pivotal role in securing the country's international boundaries, and has been officially designated as the Father of Brazilian Diplomacy.[83]" does the last sentence refer to the junior? if so, this all can probably be removed as overly tangential to this article. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 06:02, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Pres. of Council of Ministers

• "It is is true that" Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 06:22, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed. • Astynax ^talk 10:15, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Later years/death

• No issues. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 06:24, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Legacy

• No issues.

Misc.

• References look fine. Can't double-check any to make sure sources match up with the wording since they're all offline, but I can AGF on this. The images look fine, but for File:Cerro de Montevideo desde la ciudad. Año 1865.jpg, I don't get where the source is from. All it says is "desconocida" without a year or author or anything. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:42, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Wizardman, I'm sick now but I'll be fine in a few days. Could you continue your review? I'll deal with this picture before you're finished with the review, don't worry. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 11:21, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Found a decent source for the photo and also changed the license tag. --Lecen (talk) 13:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

No problem; looks better now. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:05, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

• Everything looks good now, so I'll pass the article as a GA. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:41, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• Thank you Wizardman for picking up the review and your constructive notes! • Astynax ^talk 18:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Wizardman, you never fail us. Thank you very much for taking your time to review this article. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 19:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)