Talk:Joybubbles

Joybubbles likes to watch Mister Rogers?

A quote from the fourth paragraph of this article reads: An avid fan of Mister Rogers, he mourned the entertainer's death by travelling to the University of Pittsburgh's archives and watching all 800 episodes over a span of six weeks, huddled under a blanket in the library.

Pardon me if this sounds naïve, but how is this possible if Engressia was born blind? Can someone please WP:CITE a source for this comment? It seems awfully suspicious. Hall Monitor 23:10, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

There's nothing suspicious about it, read the references...'watched' may be a vague term for a blind person...but since he was sitting in front of a television that definitely had visuals...it's the best term to use. "Listened to" in my mind equates to audio cassettes or something. *shrugs* You can change "watching" to "listening" if you really want Sherurcij 23:45, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

In the same vein, how does he give library readings? Braille?

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When was he born? --Mmartins 23:23, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

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I think Whistler was named after the whistles John Draper used.

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Joybubbles did not watch / listen to every single episode of Mister Roger's Neighborhood (MRN) during his visit to Pittsburgh. John Fail's comment ("A Conversation with Joybubbles") regarding this, or any other source that may contain a similar statement about his having watched every episode, is not entirely accurate. Joybubbles only watched/listened to the episodes of MRN the he hadn't already seen/heard previously. I don't recall the exact number (although certainly Joybubbles could recite the precise number he planned to view upon his arrival in May 1998), but there were several hundred of these, including 100+ early black-and-white episodes that he discovered after his arrival. Anyone wishing to verify, I'd be happy to go into more detail. Joybubbles could confirm my account as well.

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I removed "(listened to)" from this section of the article. Its abelist to flag this. Hearing and Seeing people "watch" television by both listening to it and watching it, so of course blind people "watch" television by only listening to it. —Cliffb 01:15, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

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Ableist? You gotta be kidding me. Try a little thought experiement: If television broadcast is played on a radio capable of tuning television signals, are the blind watching it and the sighted merely listening to it? What do blind people do in front of a TV with the sound turned down while the sighted watch the picture

Clearly watching TV isn't just "ableist" discriminatory speak, but actually represents a legitimate visual activity which the blind (outside of partially-sighted "legally blind" people) cannot participate in. If Joybubbles was born blind, he never "watched" TV, he only listened to it.209.98.56.21 00:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

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This is a ridiculous argument to have. Anyone who spends time around people with disabilities is aware that you don't highlight their disability in everything you say. To actively edit your speech to account for differences in how they perceive or interact with the world is just plain silly. Years ago when I first met my friend Scott I had a tendency to ask of him about a certain movie or TV show, "Have you seen this?" and then immediately saying "I mean have you heard it!". (Admittedly I do it occasionally now but it's done ironically. :) ) It's much easier and more natural to use the same phrasing we would use for someone who can see. To try to bring political correctness into the argument masks the greater issue of just letting things be the way they are. If you feel *that* uncomfortable saying "watched" when they're really "listening to" it, then by all means edit your speech accordingly. But don't force that stilted usage on the rest of us. Clay 16:54, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

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In ordinary colloquial speech, correcting for the use of "seen" or "heard" with people with disabilities is ridiculous; however, this is Wikipedia and there's at least SOME sense in which accuracy should be strived for, even if it seems awkward. Saying that Joybubbles "watched" TV is neither factually nor semenatically accurate since he could not watch a television program because he is blind. Coloring over this with nonsensical political correctness only creates factual inaccuracies and bogus newspeak. And yes, I grew up with a brother who was profoundly deaf, so I do "know what its like".209.98.56.21 00:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I just read the August 20, 2007 NY Times article "Joybubbles, 58, Peter Pan of Phone Hackers, Dies" http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/us/20engressia.html?bl&ex=1188273600&en=01786be50ed94ae7&ei=5087%0A

In this article, although it mentioned his tenure at the University of South Florida, it doesn't mention his receiving a degree in any dicipline, whereas the Wiki article mentions him earning a degree.

The NY Times article also references two reasons for him changing his name, one being his mother "pushing him to live up to his 172 IQ" and the other his "being abused at a school for the blind". When I read the latter, I (naively?) took it to mean "taunts", etc. The NY Times doesn't clarify - I just wanted to point out the discrepancy due to either the deliberate ommission of info on their part, or an error on Wiki's. Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.71.72.248 (talk) 15:53, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

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I've known a bunch of blind people and they use the verb "watch" in reference to consuming televised media. It is ableist to switch the verbage to listen. —Cliffb 07:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Although this is an old discussion, I saw that the article still contains the "listened" language, so I changed it. A cursory Google search showed that, for example, the American Foundation for the Blind unhesitatingly describes the blind "watching" TV. And this is consistent with language used by all the blind people I know, which admittedly is a small sample size of three. --DavidK93 (talk) 03:44, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Stories and Stuff

Does anyone know other phone numbers to Joybubbles' "Stories and Stuff" line? I know there are more out there.. --Blakeops 18:00, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

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I'll see about posting some of them soon. Go a Google search, you'll eventually find most of them.

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How relevant are the numbers themselves? The "feelings" one may bear mentioning. But including the arbitrary ones is heading in the extreme trivia direction—especially for numbers that are no longer in service. We need to ask ourselves how useful or interesting the specific numbers actually are.
—überRegenbogen 03:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

What purpose is served by listing the actual phone numbers, considering they have probably been reassigned to new customers long ago? 96.239.134.14 (talk) 15:49, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Interested in phones from age 4?

Since he insists he is 5 years old, doesn't that mean that he could only admit to liking phones from age 1, 2, 3, or 4: this making the information false. I think it needs a source that prooves this wrong.

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The context at that point is outside-world time. :)
—überRegenbogen 03:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

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Don't know, but I was 6 years old in 1976 when I first called the local (vancouver) 'hotline' that Draper and Joybubbles et al were using, the number of which was scribbled in sharpie on newspaper boxes all over town, and most famously, the back stairwell of the Capitol 6 movie theater. I talked to them and they taught me how to hit the 2600hz tone with my voice, but not by whistling, just by saying 'eeeee' at a high pitch. It would just hang up the phone (or so I thought, it actually opened up a trunk of course) and I had no idea what was going on at the time but I do remember them all being quite impressed that I could do that but I thought they were trying to play a prank on me to get the phone to hang up on me. They tried to explain the tones to me but I was just a little kid and they seemed kinda creepy so I didn't call back after a while (I thought they were all in vancouver and might be able to track me down). when I was 15 I started blueboxing with a novation apple-cat, but didn't even realize at the time that my hotline experience had been 'phreaking'... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.199.5.24 (talk) 01:20, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Zzzyzzerific

I seem to remember the last entry in the Minneapolis phone book in the late 1980s being something like "Zzzyzzyballooba" -- I'm not sure if that's just my own corrupted memory as it's been so long, or if that could have been the spelling of Joybubbles's line. Afiler 21:08, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

zzzyzzerrific i think is how it was spelled.

Joybubbles' Death

Sadly, his death has been confirmed. However, there is no information that i can find for his interment, and i am assuming that any services would have already occurred. If he is interred anywhere that the public can pay their respects to this great man, I would appreciate someone posting this info here.

I spoke to Joybubbles' mother last night (Thursday, August 9, 2007) and confirmed the sad news; he passed awayfrom a heart attack. He was 58. Plapsley 17:18, 10 August 2007 (UTC) Update: The Hennepin County Medical Examiner says that cause of death has not yet been officially determined. Plapsley 21:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Still hoping someone can post some info about if and where he was buried or interred?

Ok, I made a first pass at updating the page into past tense.  :-( Plapsley 02:14, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I made a few minor edits and corrected a few things. Dmine45 21:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to handle this-- the Esquire article cited in footnote #1 has expired, but I found a copy at http://thedqtimes.com/pages/castpages/other/fredrogerscanyousayheropg1.htm . Is it allowed to change the link to that instead, given that it's likely the story is copyrighted? Better to remove the reference altogether, I suppose. Clay 16:57, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

highrise joe?

Wasn't he also known as Highrise Joe, and mentioned in the Esq "secrets of the little blue box" article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.131.132.204 (talk) 22:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, during his days running the Zzzyzzzerrific Funline he referred to himself as High Rise Joe. This was during the early to mid 1980's and he had not yet adopted the Joybubbles moniker. He never divulged his true last name on the funline during the years that I called it. (it took me years to realize that High Rise Joe, Joe Engressia & Joybubbles were all one in the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.17.174.110 (talk) 00:45, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Joybubbles/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I just read the August 20, 2007 NY Times article "Joybubbles, 58, Peter Pan of Phone Hackers, Dies" http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/us/20engressia.html?bl&ex=1188273600&en=01786be50ed94ae7&ei=5087%0A In this article, although it mentioned his tenure at the University of South Florida, it doesn't mention his receiving a degree in any dicipline, whereas the Wiki article mentions him earning a degree. The NY Times article also references two reasons for him changing his name, one being his mother "pushing him to live up to his 172 IQ" and the other his "being abused at a school for the blind". When I read the latter, I (naively?) took it to mean "taunts", etc. The NY Times doesn't clarify - I just wanted to point out the discrepancy due to either the deliberate ommission of info on their part, or an error on Wiki's. Thank you!

Last edited at 15:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Sneakers

• The 1992 movie Sneakers had a character named “Whistler”, who seemed to combine traits of both Joybubbles and John Draper. The character of Whistler, played by David Strathairn, is based directly on Engressia.

Well, which is it: based directly on him, or seemingly based partly on him? —Tamfang (talk) 21:31, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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Joe continued to phone phreak in the '80s

I knew Joe in the mid to late 80s. He was still a phone phreak, in that he used his extraordinary auditory skills and deep knowledge of the analog phone system to play with it. He was, however, careful to not break the law, but rather, to skirt issues. We were phone phreaks, using blue boxes, Alliance teleconferences, and loops. He was an active participant, but he never committed any fraud (that I am aware of). He had a phone number that ended in 0000. He was an interesting character, but also subject to wild mood swings. At that time, the phone phreak community expanded quite a bit through the use of computer bulletin board systems, and a large number of teens/twenties were calling Joe for knowledge and to just talk about phreak stuff. However, after a period of time, a certain number of people started being mean to Joe, and he reacted badly, disconnecting himself from all of us young guys, changing his phone number. I was able to find his new phone number and call him, he was actually calm at the time but asked that I just let him be. I agreed to this and told him how I got his number and how he could prevent others from doing the same (but it would cost him getting a second phone line, and then disconnecting the first). I kept my word and heard no more of him until his death. Bobkeyes (talk) 23:58, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Josef or Joseph?

Hiya. Not sure if this is the correct way to add a question... This is about the spelling of his first (given) name. The wiki states he was born "Josef". Most sources online seem to spell his first name with a ph rather than an f. This includes FBI paperwork made available by "Exploding the Phone" author Lapsley (https://archive.org/details/Joybubbles/dbx0370/) SomeRandomFinn (talk) 09:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@SomeRandomFinn – Joybubbles' name is Josef. Joseph is likely an anglicisation, or cultural convention. -- dsprc ^[talk] 01:33, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

References

-- dsprc ^[talk] 01:33, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the answer (and links). — Preceding unsigned comment added by SomeRandomFinn (talk • contribs) 08:22, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

"Watched" vs. "Listened to"

Per the 2007 discussion, I've changed where it said he "listened to" Mr. Rogers to "watched" Mr. Rogers. Please see the 2007 discussion (titled "Joybubbles likes to watch Mister Rogers?"), but if you still have concerns, please reply here before reverting my edit. Thanks! JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333 (correct me if I'm wrong) 23:14, 11 January 2024 (UTC)