Talk:Juan Antonio Samaranch

Marquess

Can a man be a Marquess? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.166.47 (talk) 22:25, 29 June 2005 (UTC)

Yes, The wife of an (English) Marquess or a woman holding the title in her own right is a "marchioness". The French equivalent is marquis (feminine, marquise). The German is Margrave or Markgraf (fem. Markgräfin) and the Italian equivalent is marchese, the wife of whom is a marchesa. 58.104.28.240 10:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Name

His name is Don Juan Antonio Samaranch i Torelló for the world and for him, except for the catalonian wikipedia.--Codorado 13:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

How accurate is this article!

The sucsess of the olympic commitee of Los Angeles was responsible for making the olympics a profit machine? why credit Don Antonio where the credit should be given somewhere else?--Redspork02 00:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Surname

Is his catalan surnames really Juan Antoni? Juan is a castillian name and Antoni catalan. Shouldn't it be Joan Antoni? Sebisthlm 19:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's Joan Antoni.--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 17:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

CIO membership

Samaranch is also the honorary president of the CIO since 2001: http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/ioc/members/samaranch_uk.asp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.49.68.172 (talk) 06:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Franco Era

there has to be more information about his role under franco. after all, he was secretary of state for sport and "leader" of the region of catalonia then!--Severino (talk) 13:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I believe he was "civil governor" (gobernador civil) of Barcelona in the early 1970s: that made him the most important civilian in Catalonia at the time (Catalonia didn't "exist" as an administrative unit under Franco, although there was a government in exile based in Paris). I've not been able to find a source for that, though. Physchim62 (talk) 12:36, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I was wronng: I found a list of civil governors of Barcelona and Samaranch wasn't one of them. However, he was President of the Deputation of Barcelona, which is a more local political post but still very powerful, especially in those days, from 1973 to 1977. Physchim62 (talk) 19:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

There needs to be much more mention of his Fascist past. This is well-documented. The controversy with the Fascist-salute photograph (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6791326.ece) is not mentioned at all - I have mentioned it briefly. Maybe a Spanish-speaking person can gather more information - I understand Samaranch's Francoist past is quite an issue in Spain?

Liquidcentre (talk) 18:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

There's not a great deal of info that I could find this afternoon (and I speak both Spanish and Catalan). Yes, Samaranch was known as a fascist, but there are still quite a few of those in Spain. In Samaranch's case, the reputation is tempered somewhat by the fact that he brought the Olympics to Barcelona. Most of the newspaper reports a keeping very quiet about his political career (which was hardly stellar). As for the photo of the fascist salute, it was taken in 1974 and such things were a daily occurance in Spain at that time: it would be more surprising if there were no such photo! Physchim62 (talk) 19:20, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

We can't use the paragraph from biographybase.com, because it originally came from WP! We would be quoting ourselves! The transparencyinsport.org page is just a personal blog: probably OK as an external link, but not as a reference. Physchim62 (talk) 19:47, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

i remember having read something that samaranch had played a role in the last execution of a death sentence in spain (that of puig, a political judgment), which occured in barcelona during his "reign" as governor, insofar as he had to confirm the sentence.--Severino (talk) 09:55, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a mix-up between the post of civil governor and the post of president of the diputación – like I made above. Samaranch was president of the diputación, an indirectly elected post (with a single party, of course). I'll have a look into it, but confirming death sentences seems more like the job of the civil governor. I'm sure Samaranch would have confirmed it had it been his job, but we should say that he did unless we know that he did. Physchim62 (talk) 11:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

er...if you understand spanish and catalan, physchim, it should be easy for you to check out what position samaranch held exactly in the franco era as these wikipedia articles are just one click away from here! and without understanding all, in the catalan article there's a paragraph titled "Vida política" with detailed information (in the spanish one the information is under under "Biografía".--Severino (talk) 14:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I checked both on Wikipedia (which is unsourced) and also on the old newspaper articles which have been made available: Samaranch was president of the diputación, he was not civil governor (Catalan wikipedia has articles on all the civil governors of the period, and the details match with the contemporary newspaper articles), nor was he mayor of Barcelona (another suggestion I've seen). I must have picked up the civil governor idea in the 3½ years that I've lived here, but it is not true!

The president of the diputación was the highest authority of local government in a province – the position still exists, but the powers have mostly been taken over by the autonomous communities. The civil governor was the representative of the Spanish State in a province. As matters of criminal justice were (and still are) are matter for the central state and not the province, it seems strange that Samaranch would have been involved in this case. I'm not saying he wasn't, just that I can see a more logical explanation. Physchim62 (talk) 15:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

ah ok i just realized this has already been added to the article..about the execution: "samaranch+puig" brings some results in a search engine.--Severino (talk) 15:57, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Puig is a very common Catalan surname, and Samaranch is hardly unique either (about 50 "Samaranch" in the Barcelona telephone directory), so a search for the two names is bound to get some hits. I tried it on Google and none of the related to this case. I also found the press reports of the execution [1][2], which don't make any mention of a local authority having approved the execution: quite the opposite, the report says that the execution was "approved" (enterado) by the Government and the press release comes from the military authorities rather than the civil authorities. Samaranch was no longer a member of the government at that point [3], so it is hard to link him even to a collegial decision to approve the execution of Salvador Puig Antich: of the many pages that discuss the execution, I haven't seen any which link Samaranch. Physchim62 (talk) 17:10, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

well i also tried google and i found this: http://www.lemonde.fr/carnet/article/2010/04/22/juan-antonio-samaranch_1341142_3382.html (i have to admit that i don't know the meaning of "s'est tu" which is crucial to assess the information) and this http://antiquari.refres.cat/?p=517 (for you to translate :). here samaranch seems to deny any involvement in the execution.--Severino (talk) 17:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"s'est tu" means "shut up" or "kept quiet", rather than pushing for clemency as the author suggests that other Catalan figures did. The Catalan blog alleges that he "pushed in favour of the execution, as the policeman killed by Salvador [Puig Antich] had formed part of his personal escort". Of the two versions, "kept quiet" seems the more likely, as he would hardly have had to push for the execution of an anarchist accused of killing a policeman (and, almost as bad in Franquist Spain, robbing a bank), nor did his position give his much formal influence either way. Physchim62 (talk) 18:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Andrew Jennings has some lovely pictures of him here, but they are doubtless copyrighted, considering some are from as late as 1975, when he was still an avowed fascist and Franco enthusiast and toady. I especially like his pose in this one. For my money, though, he is most fetching decked out in full fascist regalia. There are plenty of those. 219.43.228.154 (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

yes there are some interesting pictures... to the case of puig: if samaranch just kept quiet, it's not worth mentioning it here i'd say. your interpretation of the second source sounds like original research to me, physchim. but if it's a blog we can't use it as a source.--Severino (talk) 19:27, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't meant to be WP:OR, although OR is not a problem on a talk page when we're trying to figure out what can go in and what can't. The blog also has a couple of corruption allegations from that period but, as you say, it's a blog. For me, the most damning bit is the stuff about his civil war record that I got from El País: Samaranch wasn't just someone who went along with Franquism because it suited him personally – he was in there pretty much from the start. Indeed, he couldn't have gone to business school immediately after the Civil War unless he had good political credentials. But we have to let the reader decide. Physchim62 (talk) 19:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

yo i was unclear on that point probably. of course this can and should be discussed here. i aimed at dismissing something (keeping it out of the article) but thats obsolete as the source is not valid. thx for the translation.--Severino (talk) 19:49, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Bethune

The article about Canadian communist doctor Norman Bethune has Samaranch listed in See also. Did they work together in the Republican health service? --Error (talk) 15:26, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

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Controversies

Where is the section on all the many questions about the Samaranch Era? This reads like a hagiography or whitewash. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.25.203.124 (talk) 09:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

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• Samaranch 1989 Paraguay stamp.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:44, 8 August 2020 (UTC)