Talk:Julie d'Aubigny

Corrected

I have corrected these issues below and some other vague references. There is a great deal of confusion on some points of La Maupin's life, including even the year of her birth, so I have gone through this and retained only those episodes attested by several reliable (ie not hostile) biographers. (I have recently completed a PhD thesis on her life, so I have spent several years researching this.)

a wild woman who hit shopkeepers

..with what? Her fist? Her sword? Or does it mean "hit on shopkeepers"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.229.34.175 (talk) 13:14, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

dressed in male clothing but did not conceal her sex

Does this mean "did not conceal her gender" or does it really mean "expose her sex"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.229.34.175 (talk) 13:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It means that she wouldn't attempt to disguise the fact that she was a woman in men's clothing. No fake mustaches, like Frances Benjamin Johnston, etc. Some sources mention that she prefered men's clothing for duels since it was much less constraining and allowed a greater range in motion. -- Autopilot (talk) 01:47, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Paleo Mount?

"Although not common at the time she helped establish them as the best mode of transportation amongst French dignitaries at the time."

What does this even mean? At best, it still doesn't make sense....They weren't common at the time, but were established as the best at the time? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.145.221 (talk) 02:00, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Much of the removed content appears to have been fictional

There's next to no scholarly analysis about this woman's actual life written in English, but the informal analysis at https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/budo4r/til_julie_daubigny_was_a_17thcentury_traveling/epcbqq1/ at least shows that a lot of it came from fiction.AlphabeticThing9 (talk) 06:23, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Year of Birth?

Her date of birth is listed with two years for her birth in the first paragraph, but defaults to 1673 after the first paragraph with no citation for the 1670 year. Should mentions of 1670 be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.178.51 (talk) 10:53, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Mademoiselle Maupin de l'Opéra (Julie d'Aubigny).jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for November 25, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-11-25. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.9% of all FPs} 06:17, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Julie d'Aubigny (1670/1673 – 1707), better known as Mademoiselle Maupin or La Maupin, was a 17th-century French opera singer. Little is known for certain about her life; her tumultuous career and flamboyant lifestyle were the subject of gossip, rumor, and colourful stories in her own time, and inspired numerous fictional and semi-fictional portrayals afterwards. Théophile Gautier loosely based the title character, Madeleine de Maupin, of his novel Mademoiselle de Maupin (1835) on her.

Illustration credit: unknown; restored by Adam Cuerden

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Her adventures

Shouldn't some of her contested stories of adventures, for which she is most known for, at least be mentioned in a new fictional section? Nnnn20430 (talk) 14:53, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Especially since this is what she's famous for today. 2603:6011:F901:50C0:E990:37AC:6711:E0EC (talk) 01:52, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi. I have added something to encompass this. The details of individual episodes may not be documented, but the fact that she was famous for duels, cross-dressing, and affairs with men and women at a time that was unusual is attested by early sources including contemporary diarists and Paris gazettes. These sources are not fictional, and I and several historians have done extensive scholarly work on the sources that exist. So it is part of the story of her life. It is fair to say that some later writers embroidered the truth (eg Stoker claims she killed several people, which is not true) but her biographer Letainturier-Fradin (1904) is extremely thorough. And so am I. Thanks for all your work on this. Kmjgardiner (talk) 07:07, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

A decent number of the citations for the more colourful tales in the article as it stands today go to your own blog post, which doesn't cite specific sources. I think you should replace the existing citations with your original sources, or add that information to your blog post, or both, to clarify how much hard evidence there is for those stories. There are certainly characters at least that colourful in well-documented history, and I hope Julie d'Aubigny is one of them, but more often than kind of tale is a fabrication.

This is especially true because of commentary like the following that describes Letainturier's book as mostly fictional:

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/budo4r/comment/epcbqq1/

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/12zr6p1/comment/jhtiefy/ 174.21.182.236 (talk) 16:01, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Featured on Citation Needed

Do you think we should add a tag that it was mentioned in something? Just curious. I think the episode was in season 7 or 8 IcantThinkOfAusernameLOL (talk) 14:04, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary, no. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 16:36, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Series 6 episode 4 Ashiwashi (talk) 10:57, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: History of Sexuality

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2023 and 22 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Werdzandsuch (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by CrazieMaisie (talk) 15:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Removal of a Questionable Source

As mentioned in other topics on this page, many of the salacious details of the life of Julie d'Aubigny on the page are sourced from a single blogpost made by an author in relation to their historical fiction novel centered around the subject. The author of the blogpost added these details into the body of the article, culminating in ~2/3rds of the details of Jules d'Aubigny's life on the page being sourced to their own blogpost which does not contain any details or citations. The user in question (with a single exception) has only edited this page - which they started doing around the time of their historical fiction novel's release in 2014 which the blogpost was made to advertise. They have not yet returned to the page as of now to replace the citations to something peer reviewed or more reliable as they planned to do on their talk, so I am removing this source for original research and conflict of interest.

As it is attested to that many sources contemporary to the subject are from rumor-peddlers, and that the user's blog states their doctorate was in creative writing (not history), I am assuming in good faith that this user: 1. Did not return to source their claims to other researchers and list the primary sources they got their information from. 2. Potentially believed in the reliability of certain primary source(s) when writing their book that are questioned or unincorporated by others who have published on Julie d'Aubigny. 3. That if they are drawing from primary source material or second hand sources that these details can be accounted for and incorporated here from those.

I do not speak French and can't verify or replace these citations on my own or speak to their validity, and as a newer user to the platform I welcome conversation and explanation on the topic if I am out of line for this. Relm (talk) 03:08, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Let it be noted that much of what was sourced to this reference was able to be corroborated in other sources already used by the page and kept. Relm (talk) 13:04, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Recent Edits

I've reverted the recent edits of @AlphabeticThing9. The material that was removed seems to be present in the sources, and I believe the removal of a significant portion of the article and several sources on the grounds of low quality should at least gain a consensus. Relm (talk) 13:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I am just so happy to see this wonderful figure get the recognition she deserves. Even if parts of life and the status of Aubigny's non-conformance to society standards during her time of life even today aren't recognized because it's so against the status quo 141.156.151.154 (talk) 13:35, 15 November 2024 (UTC)