Talk:July 2022 British cabinet reshuffle

Article name

It's just a thought, but shouldn't this article be titled July 2022 British cabinet reshuffle, as there was one in February that was fairly significant. Any thoughts? This is Paul (talk) 16:23, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Agree on the date disambiguation, and suggest it either be "July 2022 British government reshuffle" or just "July 2022 British reshuffle" if we're going to include the various junior ministers. And if we're going to list the appointed junior ministers, then we should list their equivalent resignations (with a separate, possibly collapsible list of the even more junior resignations of PPS, trade envoys and party vice chairs). Therequiembellishere (talk) 21:54, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree. We're now in the middle of another one. AlecStewart (talk) 10:43, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 5 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No such user (talk) 13:29, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

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• July 2022 British cabinet reshuffle → 2022 British cabinet reshuffle
• 2022 British cabinet reshuffle → 2022 British cabinet reshuffle (disambiguation)

– Now that the September and October articles have been redirected, this is the only remaining reshuffle article: therefore, there is no need to disambiguate. Willwal1 (talk) 17:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC) —Added move of associated dab. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:16, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose: There were still other reshuffles in 2022, so seems right to keep the dab to avoid confusion for the reader. YorkshireExpat (talk) 18:23, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose: in the real world there were several reshuffles in 2022, we can't change reality. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:29, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
  • There has been discussion elsewhere on the topic of whether the September and October events are reshuffles (as you claim) or formations. "In the real world", a ministry is formed from MPs who sit in the current Parliament (last elected in 2019), but there is a reason why we call it the "Sunak ministry" and not the "Third ministry of the 58th UK Parliament". That reason is that, by current constitutional convention, the government is formed by the party leader who commands the confidence of a majority of MPs. Since July, we have seen two governments brought down by political/constitutional crises in which the Prime Minister lost the confidence of their parliamentary colleagues. This is why new leaders have been elected and new ministries have been formed. I would therefore reason that your statement, 'it is the same government that was elected in 2019' is not accurate. Consider this hypothetical scenario: a hung Parliament in which party A and party B have a similar number of seats, but neither has a parliamentary majority alone. The monarch invites the leader of party A to form a government after they secure the support of party C (giving them a majority). After a few months, party C ends their support for party A and announces that they will support party B instead. When the leader of party B is invited to form a government, they are not reshuffling the previous government that had been formed by party A. They are forming a new government.

The term "reshuffle" refers to a specific political event in which the Prime Minister recommends that the monarch appoint new ministers to replace a noteworthy number of previous officeholders who have already served in that PM's government. That is why there is much media commentary about reshuffles as an exercise of the Prime Minister's authority (see 2018 British cabinet reshuffle for an example of an unsuccessful attempt of this by Theresa May). The July event was a reshuffle (Johnson's political response to the preceding government crisis); September and October were formations, which are very different events with entirely different political contexts. Willwal1 (talk) 18:44, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

So what do you say about all the sources that call what Sunak did, for example, a reshuffle? There's a WP:COMMONNAME argument here if nothing else. YorkshireExpat (talk) 21:55, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Better to keep the lack of ambiguity. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. I generally agree with YorkshireExpat's point that sources frequently used the word "reshuffle" for the other events, despite Willwal1's reasonable argument that "reshuffle" wasn't technically correct. It's unclear that readers searching for 2022 British cabinet reshuffle would be primarily looking for the event in July. Adumbrativus (talk) 05:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.