Talk:June 2016 Tel Aviv shooting

Things to be added

I saw a news report on it, try to find in an English source that:

• The shooters sat in a Max Brenner restoraunt before they started shooting.
• There were celebrations in Hebron
• A civil guard of Israel Broadcasting Authority neutralized one of the shooters near Tel Aviv Cinematheque (aprox. 200m from Sarona market, there's a video to confirm it)
• Security Cabinet of Israel to be meeting tommorow in HaKirya.
• There are 10 victims - 3 dead, 1 fatal condition, 3 bad condition, 1 moderate condition 2 light condition (confirmed by Channel 10, Ynet, Haaretz and Walla!, all in Hebrew).

If you won't find it, I"ll add it tommorow from English or Hebrew sources. Good luck, I go to sleep.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:11, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I am heading away from my computer now for the evening. but a few other things we need to add

• A map
• Fireworks were set off in celebration in both Gaza and Chevron
• We need an international reactions section. Hamas praised it, haven't seen official UN, US or even Israel statements yet.

I am sure there will be tons more to add, whatever doesn't get done tonight I can try and get to tomorrow, hopefully. - Galatz^Talk 21:22, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Rename

I always search for alternative name to attacks named "June 2016...shooting", I offer "Sarona Market Shooting", without year or month or name of city. The Sarona market was opened only two years ago so there were no attacks there in the past. Any offers before I make a move discussion(tommorow)?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:20, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

As an American-Israeli editor here, I support this rename, Sarona is a high-profile name on the Israeli map, a recently renovated historic location, now housing luxury-brand merchandising HQs and covering several city blocks adjacent to HaKirya (T.A. government center and IDF headquarters), while the Sarona Market complex is touted as an upscale leisure, shopping and tourist venue. Also, a sober consideration: it's possible and even likely - according to Hamas pronouncements in the media - there will be other shootings or mass attacks in June 2016, with Tel Aviv as a target. -- Deborahjay (talk) 05:18, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

I do not feel that the proposed title really meets the criteria of WP:CRITERIA for naming. Its not such a major name outside of Israel. A common person will look for something related to Tel Aviv, thats the key name for people. Additionally its consistent with other articles, for example, the shooting on new years is January 2016 Tel Aviv shooting, (which I moved yesterday from 2016 Tel Aviv shooting), but under the same suggestion it would be Dizengoff Street Shooting. - Galatz^Talk 19:23, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Dizengoff Street Shooting, Jaffa Port attack, Sarona Market Shooting. What's the problem? If you go to List of Palestinian suicide attacks you see that all attacks has the names they are known as.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:09, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

All of them show the time and city and means of attack. I understand in Yerushalayim when you have something like the Lions' Gate stabbings that is an internationally recognized individual location, it makes sense, but I do not believe the market is. Similarly if you look at something like the Hebrew University bombing its a well known university. I dont think you can make the same case for this. I think Tel Aviv is the most specific common place to use. - Galatz^Talk 14:05, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Jaffa, Dizingoff and Sharona are three notable places in Tel Aviv. Sharona is currently a large commercial center. You"ll mostly find foreigners (non Tel-Avivians) and tourists there. Jaffa is a neighborhood know to half of the world (at least those who know about Israel or Palestine) and Dizingof is also one of the most known streets in Tel Aviv. I am serious when I say they are like 5th avenue, Brooklyn and Chelsea Market.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:31, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Maybe I am a bit confused, are you proposing moving all of them? - Galatz^Talk 17:17, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:36, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

I would suggest before making a sweeping change like that maybe bring it to the wikiproject israel page and get a bigger consensus. This event is only 48 hours old and many people may not be following the page. - Galatz^Talk 17:52, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

• Support rename to Sarona Market Shooting. There will be no difficulty to searchers, since searches on some version of shooting Tel Aviv 2016 will lead to Sarona market Shooting. And specificity is always preferable in naming.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
• Support, suggested name is more consistent with naming conventions of previous attacks. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 22:04, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
• Support, of course leaving a redirect from the old name so those looking for "June 2016 Tel Aviv shooting" or just "Tel Aviv shooting" would still find it. “WarKosign” 04:32, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

• Capitalization should be Sarona Market shooting. Debresser (talk) 22:59, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
• Support, it should be Sarona Market shooting. It's not always internationally recognized places anyway. Take Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing.--Monochrome_Monitor 14:43, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete quotation of Salma al-Jamal

The article is mentioning only a partial quote of the stament by Al-Jazeera's Salma al-Jamal. The source article of JPost also only is partially quoting her statement but if you scroll further down the article you'll see the full quote of her statement: "The Ramadan operation that took place today is the best answer to stories we have been hearing about 'peace process' that some people are trying in vain to revive." From the full quote, this seems a critisicm of people claiming there is still hope for the peace process between Israel and Palestine and are trying to revive it. But the incomplete quote cited in the article makes it look like she is supportibg the attack. The article should be amended and the full quote of her statement should be mentioned. 117.199.84.106 (talk) 00:24, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Sanctions listed

Greyshark09 (talk · contribs) changed the sanctions on the page from Arab-Israel to ISIL. I am not really sure this is accurate. Although he added sources about being inspired by ISIL, is this enough to make this qualify as ISIL sanctions rather than Arab-Israeli? I feel since these were Arab from near Hebron, taking place in Israel, that those sactions make more sense. Thoughts? - Galatz^Talk 15:14, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

First of all, the WP:GS/SCW&ISIL sanctions were specifically installed in 2013 to supercede the Arab-Israeli (or Israeli-Palestinian) sanctions, in cases when there is Syrian Civil War or Islamic State relation, but no specific Israeli-Palestinian conflict connection. In this regard, when Israeli or Palestinian people join the Islamic State or act under its guidelines (as in this case and possibly in case of Israeli citizen Malhem), while completely undermining nationalism in favor of ISIL cause, there is no direct relation to the Palestinian struggle. Trying to connect those ISIL-affiliated people to Palestinian national struggle was even undermined by the Palestinian Police and of course themselves. This is not a standard situation, which had used to exist until couple of years ago, when automatically all violent incidents involving Israelis and Palestinian were put part of the "IP conflict". Now we have radical Muslim Israeli and radical Muslim Palestinian citizens alike joining Islamic State and oppose Israeli and of course Palestinian nationalism.GreyShark (dibra) 17:48, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Israel's response collective punishment against Palestinians definitely makes this event a part of the IP conflict even if the first attack was not inspired by the IP conflict. Sepsis II (talk) 17:56, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Which response?GreyShark (dibra) 17:58, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh havent you read the news? A siege on Yatta and freezing of some [insert high number] of thousands of work and entry permits from the Palestinian Authority to Israel, which lasted for three days.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:28, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I read the news of course; i just don't generally read Israeli news, because Israel doesn't interest me all the time... However, has not the siege of Yatta been also motivated by a number of other incidents originated from the town?GreyShark (dibra) 19:26, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

This was a direct response to it. Per the source used in the article IDF forces raided one of the terrorists' houses in Yatta following their deadly attack in Tel Aviv. According to reports, IDF forces searched the house and interrogated the family members. They surrounded and blocked off the entrances of the town, arrested several suspects, and mapped out one of terrorists' houses to prepare it for demolition.[1] To me this sounds like a direct ersponse, not other incidents. - Galatz^Talk 19:46, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I have a few issues with that response though. Most importantly, it wasn't the suspects who said ISIL was their motivation. Your edits say "According to an official indictment filed by the Tel Aviv District Prosecutor's Office the perpetrators were inspired by the Islamic State group." WP doesn't make blanket statements based on unverified claims, which is what that change is doing. What if they are wrong? What if that isn't proven in court? - Galatz^Talk 18:17, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Alright. If they are related with one of the Palestinian nationalist groups - surely it is an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If they are linked to or inspired by ISIS, then the case is spillover of the Syrian Civil War and ISIS militancy. So far, there has been no claim by any Palestinian group nor the attackers nor the Israeli persecutors in regard to Palestinian nationalist connection. On the contrary - the only Palestinian official statement denied any connection.GreyShark (dibra) 19:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

The members were influenced both by ISIS and Hamas. One of the perpetrators is a Hamas member. There were other people involved in this attack (at least three beyond the two attackers) and except for the third attacker that was prevented from joining at the last day, the others are not known to be supporters of ISIS and giving the nature of the conflict in the last 130 years I"d say it is more likely of them being Palestinian nationalists rather than ISIS supporters. Nevertheless, this incident has no relation except for the fact one of the perpetrator was inspried by videos he found on the internet.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:28, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Can you source Hamas membership of one of the militants?GreyShark (dibra) 19:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

This is the source used when its mentioned in the article [2] - Galatz^Talk 19:43, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

here. Not a millitant of Hamas, but a member of the movement.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:48, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Per that source Palestinian security forces said that one of the terrorists who carried out the Sarona attack was known to them as a member of Hamas, while the other one wasn't affiliated with any organization at all. I feel being member of a group is much more influential than watching videos online or whatever reason they claim he was inspired by ISIL. - Galatz^Talk 19:51, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

The perpetrator said he was inspired by ISIS videos, but it is not as if he was an angel before he went to Jordan. He was already a radical, with members of his family being parts of squads that made attacks for the Tanzim during the Second Intifada. I don't know if this is in the article, but it is said that one of them was traumatized by the demolition of his home when he was a child. This is not only ISIL inspired--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:58, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Reversion of 12:55, 25 June 2017 edit

WarKosign, why did you revert my edit? You didn't leave any explanation. Sokuya (talk) 13:29, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

@Sokuya: Sorry, I thought it was obvious. The shooting didn't happen in Palestine so its portal is not relevant. “WarKosign” 20:40, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Oh I see. I added it because the attackers was Palestinians so I thought it was relevant. Nevermind @WarKosign: Sokuya (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2017 (UTC)