Talk:K. Surendran (politician)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2017

37.210.187.3 (talk) 10:51, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

You will need to provide a reference before we can consider adding this. —Guanaco 11:00, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2017

91.73.174.94 (talk) 11:27, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

That article is not semi-protected. You'll need to explain what edits you want to be made. —Guanaco 11:32, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Midhunkaru (talk) 16:16, 30 May 2017 (UTC)== Kerala legend ==

Super man — Preceding unsigned comment added by Midhunkaru (talk • contribs) 16:14, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2017

95.184.46.80 (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 00:46, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 29 May 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the politician to the base title, and consensus to move the writer as proposed, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 00:36, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

---

• K. Surendran (politician) → K. Surendran
• K. Surendran → K. Surendran (writer)

– Primary topic per Google search and page views. Daily avg views for the politician is 335, while the writer's is 11. There is large news coverage for the politician, while the writer's is almost nil in a quick search. --Let There Be Sunshine 13:21, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose 1, but support 2 and creation of a WP:TWODABS while the author of Maya (K. Surendran novel), Thalam (novel) and Kattukurangu (novel) is more long term notable, yes the politician is getting more page views. A classic case of criteria 1 and 2 of WP:Primary pointing different ways. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:10, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
• Neutral 1st; support 2nd per above. Since it doesn't seem there's a clear primary topic, a disambiguation page should be created at the basename. Paintspot Infez (talk) 15:32, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose K. Surendran (politician) → K. Surendran and Support K. Surendran → K. Surendran (writer) as well as 2DAB page per In ictu oculi and Paintspot Infez.    Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:48, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per User:In ictu oculi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:D48D:AB34:217B:1F3E:6E01:564D (talk) 19:52, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose, K. Surendran (politician) is not a notable politician. He has not won any elections in his life and has not held any major posts except a few low-level positions in BJP (BJP itself is not a major party in the state). While K. Surendran (author) is a renowned author and continues to be read across Kerala. May be the politician is getting more pageviews because he is quite popular lately mainly through social media trolls. But K. Surendran (author) is more long term notable. So I suggest not to rename any of the pages. A hatnote on the poltician's page is more that sufficient. 2405:204:D00F:F4C1:7D3A:9DCD:735F:7E77 (talk) 17:20, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support dabbing the writer; oppose giving the politician the undabbed title, which should instead become a dab page. A writer whose article-clinching notability claim was achieved in the 1960s, and who died in 1997, could hardly be expected to be the subject of as much current media coverage as a current politician — but our notability standards are not based on WP:RECENTISM, so 45-year-old media coverage you have to dig out from a news archiving service does not count for less in the notability sweepstakes than two-year-old news coverage you can find on a simple Google News search. So it has not been adequately demonstrated that the politician is the permanent WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for all time in perpetuity just because he's more current. Bearcat (talk) 20:08, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

Moved from

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• K Surendran.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:37, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Move Request of Draft:K. Surendran (politician)

Moved from user talk:BD2412

Hi @BD2412:,Greetings....

Unfortunately, the day of he became as the state president (15-02-2020) his page was deleted through the AFD.It was an interesting ☺☺

These are some of the most important news article in last few days,that followed easily prove his notability.You can check the news and date to make it sure my arguments.

• E-paper from janmabhumi daily newspaper

• Ndtv (national media)

• The Hindu (National newspaper)

• timesofindia/indiatimes.(National newspaper)

• National news

• mathrubhumi news

• Manorama news

• keralakaumudidaily newspaper

• deshabhimani daily newspaper

• deccanherald

These reliable sources are solved specific concerns of editors who supported deletion discussion.

Therefore, I request you to Please move this Draft:K. Surendran (politician) article to the main space Thanks-- Padavalam Kuttan Pilla  Talk  08:32, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Padavalamkuttanpilla, I am sure neither BD2412 or any of the AfD participants were aware of the about to happen future incident, So it is wrong to claim some link. That said even if this news had come before the AfD closure, I dont think it would have made any difference to the decision at AfD. The state presidents of the party are not inherently notable. However if the subject wins a state of national election then he passes WP:NPOL and can get his wiki page. I see that you are working to improve the draft. You may continue your efforts but when you are done, please discuss this again with the AfD participants before deciding to move the page back to mainspace. regards DBigXrayᗙ 11:17, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Hey DBigXray, He was appointed as the same day when afd closed.When I came to edit the article, I saw it had been deleted a few hours ago So I couldn't pointout these sources there.I believe that a well experienced editor like you will review these reliable sources with neutrality.Thanks-- Padavalam Kuttan Pilla  Talk  12:05, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Padavalamkuttanpilla, I have reviewed all these sources with neutrality. They are all about his appointment to a non notable post. had he been appointed as the national president of BJP, then he might have merited an article. state presidents of a party do not get this benefit. I am moving this to the draft talk page for the benefit of the page reviewers. Please continue there. DBigXrayᗙ 12:11, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

@BD2412:,DBigXray I here applying point two of WP:NPOL Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage-Just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability, although such people can still be notable if they meet the general notability guideline here K Surendran clearly meet the WP:general notability guideline -- Padavalam Kuttan Pilla  Talk  12:57, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Padavalamkuttanpilla, BJP party is notable. The newspapers are covering the WP:ROUTINE event of the appointment of a new president of the party's state unit. The topic is the appointment of the president. Such sources cannot be used to claim WP:GNG. When a person does some notable work or a series of notable work over a period of years, independent media sources, such as newspapers, magazines etc, provide detailed coverage about the subject in the form of biography article in detail talking about the subject his life and his notable works, we would need there type of sources. As I can see there is nothing this politician has done that merits an article. We will have to wait if he wins an election or gets nominated to Rajya Sabha, only then can his article be created. DBigXrayᗙ 13:04, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Notability

Im still concerned whether this person meets our notability criteria. Most of the sources are about this person being appointed as the leader of the state commitee of his party and news about some controversies he has been involved with. Since this was an article that got rejectes in draftspace multiple number if times, I would like to ping some of the active fellow users from Kerala and some others familiar with politics to tell your opinion regarding this matter. @Poppified, Vincentvikram, Soman, Goldsztajn, GPL93, TheWikiholic, Johnpacklambert, Padavalamkuttanpilla, and DBigXray:, please tell your opinion if you are seeing this and please add any other experienced users you know Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 10:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd say that the subject passes WP:GNG considering the large number of references about him. Vikram Vincent 11:24, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm making no comment whatsoever on the current content of this article. Kerala has a population bigger than Texas, the 2nd largest state in the USA. Texas state-level political party leaders, from the country's two main parties, never elected to legislative office, have no difficulty passing the GNG, eg James Dickey (Texas politician), Tom Mechler, Gilberto Hinojosa. In Germany, we have articles on the party chairs from some of the smallest lander (states): Carsten Meyer-Heder. While the BJP is the third party in Kerala, it took 14% at the last election, polling suggests its vote will increase in the 2021 election and it is the leading national party in India. It would surprise me that the leader of the party in the state would not be notable. The point here is not to apply the guidelines as if they were cookie cutters (ie all state level party leaders fail to meet NPOL, therefore delete!), but to use common sense and examine each case in the context of political significance. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 11:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Kashmorwiki, WP:GNG is clearly established by sourcing. He is a notable Person in the Kerala politics and also the head of a political party , Citation from the guideline WP:ANYBIO ‘’A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists’’ by all means He has been covered by multiple reliable independent sources which makes him notable per WP:GNG and WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO..Thanks Padavalam🌂  ►  11:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thankyou all, especially Goldsztajn. So I think the there should be a special criteria for the politicians from India if this is the case so. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 12:13, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Kashmorwiki there are problems using some of the existing guidelines as is. In some cases we will have to establish consensus on what works for us because contexts could be wide apart. Vikram Vincent 12:19, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Vincentvikram, thats what I was also thinking too. I think a new discussion should be opened in WikiProject Indian politics inorder to make the necessary changes in the existing notability criteria of politicians. Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 12:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Kashmorwiki, glad to be of assistance. I would just emphasise that none of my reasoning is contra any guideline - the point of NPOL is to indicate that an elected politician at state or national level is *presumed* to be notable. In practice this generally means it is not necessary to establish notability via the GNG, the fact of election establishes notability. However, the opposite does not follow: not satisfying NPOL criteria does not per se indicate a lack of notability. It seems to me that the trouble with a lot of arguments at AfD which say, so-and-so fails NPOL criteria, are that they assume this demonstrates a lack of notability. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 12:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)