Talk:KH-11 KENNEN

Replacement

It is believed that the KH-11 began to be replaced by the KH-12 around 1990.

Many observers believe that the KH-12 is really just an incremental improvement over the KH-11, so some still call later satellites KH-11s. The "Improved Crystal" nickname for the KH-12 also comes from the idea that it is only incrementally better. The main difference is that the KH-12 might include the ability for "live" viewing of imagery. An additional capability reportedly was developed under the code name of DRAGON and adds thermal imaging, probably in the 3 to 5 micrometer mid-wavelength infrared band, though perhaps at 10 micrometers.

A Los Angeles Times article reported that the KH-13 (8X program) was intended as "a major upgrade to the KH-12," in 1995.

This section moved from main article to Talk until references are completed. Too much unref'd material; not encyclopedic.LanceBarber (talk) 07:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't know about how it's known now but "real-time optical observation capability" was called Return Beam Video Camera or by the acronym RBVC.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 15:47, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Block III and IV missions / Proposals to merge KH-12 and KH-11 articles

I'm considering to add Block III and IV missions to the "big" table on KH-11, i.e. the missions sometimes called KH-12 or KH-13. There seems to be some concensus that the official Keyhole designations ended with KH-11, and that the later big IMINT satellites were basically advanced modifications of the original KH-11 design. Any comments on that? In the longer term this might mean that the KH-12 and KH-13 articles get incorporated into the KH-11 article (similar to CORONA, which summarizes the design evolution from KH-1 to KH-4). -- Enemenemu (talk) 00:42, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

• I would strongly support merging KH-12 into this article as it is just an alternative name for the later KH-11 satellites. KH-13 is usually associated with the Misty or EIS programmes, which were derived from the KH-11, but deviated from it fairly significantly. By all means mention that they were derived from KH-11, but they were not KH-11s, so they should be covered separately at Misty (satellite) and Enhanced Imaging System. I also think that USA-53 should be removed from the table of KH-11 satellites for this reason. --GW… 00:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply. I've added Blocks III and IV to the table and removed USA-53. Will also initiate a discussion on the KH-12 page about the possible merger. -- Enemenemu (talk) 15:49, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Some background info on KH-11 Blocks I to IV (which provides some rational to the merger proposal) can be found in articles by Dwayne Day on FIA: Gum in the Keyhole and by William Graham on the recent launch of NROL-49 (latest satellite in the KH-11 family): Delta IV Heavy launches on debut West Coast launch with NRO L-49] -- Enemenemu (talk) 16:47, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done. I have merged the articles. --GW… 22:45, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, very nice! -- Enemenemu (talk) 22:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Refuelling

No missions have been launched to refuel KH-11 satellites. They also long predate US automated docking operations. I think it is unlikely that the satellites have this capability. --GW… 22:45, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Since over the past year the statement on a refuelling capability could not be substantiated, I've now removed it. --Enemenemu (talk) 21:27, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

NRO donation to NASA

Given the Washington post article was updated shortly after release to state "DeSio, the NRO spokeswoman, said the telescopes were built in the late 1990s and early 2000s.", can we get rid of the "early KH-11 prototypes" spiel now? In fact the source doesn't state the prototypes claim anyway. ChiZeroOne (talk) 20:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

It seems much more likely that these were from Future Imaging Architecture. I added this, with references, to the article. The main argument in favor is that these were stated to be successful optics from a failed program, and the KH-11 was not a failure. Also, the KH-11 was known to about the size of the Hubble, and these are significantly shorter. And the time frame matches - the FIA contract was awarded in 1999, and for contracts of this size there is considerable development already in progress when the formal contract is signed. Naturally this is not confirmed one way or the other.... LouScheffer (talk) 11:52, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

• For a programme of that nature, there would be no hardware development until at least a few years after the contract was signed. It is also worth noting that there were comments about the spacecraft being like Hubble, which is a description usually associated with KH-11; FIA were intended to be much smaller. --W. D. Graham 14:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

However, the main contract is often proceeded by various 'development' contracts, allowing the technical risk of the main contract to be minimized. These are often considered part of the program, though not part of the main contract. LouScheffer (talk) 15:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

True, but if the hardware was "built in the late 1990s and early 2000s", it would seem to be beyond a precontract level. --W. D. Graham 16:02, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposal: rename "KH-11 Kennan" to "KH-11 Kennen"

With NRO now officially acknowledging the code word "KENNEN" for KH-11, I propose to rename the article. Should one add a paragraph to the article about the "old" erroneous (hearing/spelling mistake) code word "KENNAN"? Pls. comment. --Enemenemu (talk) 12:56, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

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