Talk:Kaba-chan

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved back to the name it had before the undiscussed move that started this discussion. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:31, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

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KABA.chan → Kabachan — As per WP:ALLCAPS and WP:MOSTM, there is no need at all to use stylistic all-caps for this person's stage name, since it is not an acronym. --DAJF (talk) 23:24, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose: Articles on individual people are not subjct to WP:MOSTM as it is not a trademark but the person's name (WP:MOSCAPS clearly states under the Mixed or non-capitalization header "Some individuals do not want their personal names capitalized." Clearly the same can be done for a single individual who does want his personal name entirely capitalized (or at least partially capitalized.). In all reliable sources, this man goes by the name "KABA.ちゃん". While I originally had the article located at "Kaba.chan" and it was subsequently moved to "KABA.chan", it is entirely inaccurate to move the page to "Kabachan" as that is not the individual's stage name in any form. If apl.de.ap can have full stops in his name, so can KABA.chan. And don't give me the WP:OTHERSTUFF argument that you put on your talk, again. Giving other examples of other pages is how you prove that there's a consensus for the format, and OTHERSTUFF is for AFD, not style issues. Either way, WP:ALLCAPS does not apply considering the name is not entirely capitalized.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:17, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment: I cannot see a single valid argument here. Where to start... let's do them in order presented. A stage name is a lot more akin to a trademark than to a personal name. Extension of the reasonably common practice of avoiding capitalisation to all caps is a maybe at best. The name quoted as being used in reliable sources is not the name proposed here, so that argument is completely irrelevant. Authorship of the article is irrelevant. No, it's not completely inaccurate, in terms of WP:AT it's a recognisable format of the name and that's what we care about here. And as for the personal attacks and abusive language, you have a long history of both, leading in the past to several blocks and an arbcom case against you, and I'm posting a new warning to your user page. Andrewa (talk) 00:24, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
    • None of the blocks on my account arise from any sort of civility issues, so please don't try to say that my argument has no merit because I have stated that DAJF's opinion on how WP:OTHERSTUFF applies here has no merit. And regardless of his name being a trademark, it is still the name that he is known by in all reliable sources. The man goes by the name "KABA.ちゃん" which is approximated in English typography as "KABA.chan". "Kaba.chan" could be a feasible placement of this article (as it was originally), but "Kabachan" most certainly is not as it does not reflect how the individual stylizes his name, which is how all articles on individuals are treated, regardless of it being a stage name or not. That is why we have articles at will.i.am, apl.de.ap, and k.d. lang. It is already in the manual of style that individuals can capitalize their names however they please. So it should also be in the manual of style that individuals can stylize their name however they please and the English Wikipedia should try to emulate that in the titling of articles unless there is some sort of technical restriction barring the titling of the page. To reiterate, I would approve of a move if the suggested location were "Kaba.chan" and not "Kabachan".—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:38, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
      • Disagree with nearly all of this. I tried dealing logically and sequentially with the issues before and you've ignored that, so I won't waste time doing it again. It's pretty obvious where most of the numerous non sequiturs are I think. Andrewa (talk) 04:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
        • If the man calls himself "KABA.ちゃん" in Japanese, why should we refer to him as "Kabachan" (without the full stop between "Kaba" and "Chan") in English? Answer me that.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 17:53, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
• Support. It's a composite name, and I see no reason that WP:ALLCAPS should not apply to its first component, in intent and probably to the letter as well. Andrewa (talk) 00:03, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
  • I have never heard of a "composite name" before. If all lowercase is allowed for stage names, I do not see why all capitals or mixed capitals should not be allowed for stage names, particularly when it has been confirmed at WT:MOS (discussion) that personal names are treated differently.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
    • It's a descriptive phrase and not uncommon, as a google search would quickly have shown you. It's also used as a technical term by Oracle and others, but that's in a different context. (It wouldn't be all that hard to refine the search but I don't think it's worth the time.) Andrewa (talk) 04:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
      • It's still not a term we use on Wikipedia when dealing with article titles.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 17:56, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
        • AFAIK we don't currently have a policy mandating the descriptive phrases that are permitted on talk pages. You're free to propose one. (;-> Andrewa (talk) 23:59, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
• [Strongly] Support, pending evidence that KABA.chan is the usual spelling in English; but also support Kaba.chan We should follow a consensus spelling if one exists; in which case it may well be the Kaba.chan that IMDB uses; if none does, we should use standard typography. Fortunately, these lead to much the same title. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:51, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
  • "KABA.chan" (or perhaps "KABA.Chan") is the direct transliteration of his Japanese pseudonym "KABA.ちゃん" into English. It does not seem appropriate to say that retaining the full stop is not a standard typography, as there are entertainers in English speaking contexts that use them in their name as well.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 19:34, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
    • ...is a direct transliteration; you yourself find two of them. So? Moskva is a direct transliteration of Москва́; our article is at Moscow. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:59, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
      • You are comparing apples and oranges. This is a name from another cultural sphere that utilizes English. The capitalization of the part that is not English is not an aspect of the transliteration process and I should not have treated it as such. "KABA.chan" is the direct transliteration. However we decide to style it is the issue here.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 20:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
  • Any opposition that is driven to argue that Russia is not "another cultural sphere" - or that English is unused in Moscow - has demonstrated desperation. If this is the worst that can be said against the move, let's do it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
    • Russian place names that have been around for centuries and Japanese pseudonyms from the beginning of the 21st century are two different items and cannot be treated the same. Moscow is an established spelling in the English lexicon while there is no such thing for Mr. Kabashima's stage name, but I know for certain that "KABA.ちゃん" does not ever transliterate into "Kabachan" as is suggested by this requested move. Москва becoming "Moscow" is not the same as changing capitalization and getting rid of a typographic feature that is clearly part of this individual's stage name. And it is at least plainly clear that "Kabachan" is not an accepted transliteration even among not-exactly-reliable English language sources such as IMDb and Anime News Network.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 22:22, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
• Suggestion. Move this page to Eiji Kabashima instead and create redirects from KABA.chan, Kaba.chan, and Kabachan. Ozob (talk) 11:32, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
  • WP:MOS-JA#Pseudonyms suggests against that. The man is not known as "Eiji Kabashima" publically. He is KABA.ちゃん.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 18:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved after 38 days. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:07, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

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Kabachan → Kaba.chan – The subject of this article includes a full stop in their name. There are no aspects of the manual of style that forbid the use of the full stop in such matters and this was the preferred title in the comments of the previous requested move discussion rather than the mere headcounting in favor of not having the page at "KABA.chan". "Kaba.chan" was also the original location of the page before the move that sent it to "Kabachan".—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 21:33, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

• Speedy close this is the exact reverse of the move closed last week, so it is excessive reversion speed of a move resulting from a consensus discussion. I suggest you wait until July or later. 65.94.45.160 (talk) 08:50, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
  • No it is not. The requested title is "Kaba.chan". Not "KABA.chan". As it stands, the title of this page goes against WP:COMMONNAME as there are no sources, English or Japanese, that refer to the individual as "Kabachan".—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 18:22, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose MOS:TM playful punctuation. (example is "Skate.") 184.144.163.181 (talk) 05:05, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
  • MOS:TM does not apply to individual persons' names, as is evident at will.i.am and apl.de.ap.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 18:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Kaba-chan. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 23:41, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

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Kabachan → Kaba.chan – This was the original location of the page until someone moved it to "KABA.chan" some time late last year. There are no restrictions in any of the manual of styles that the full stop in the middle of his name when it is parsed in Japanese should be removed completely for this English language article, as there are plenty of individuals in the English speaking world who have these same "decorative punctuation marks" as said by someone in the previous moves (will.i.am, apl.de.ap).—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 18:56, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Looks like a more accurate rendering without causing all-caps problems. --DAJF (talk) 09:14, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. Kaba-chan is acceptable. Because of "KABA-chan Official Website". He uses KABA-CHAN in English, KABA.ちゃん in Japanese. -- Takabeg (talk) 04:10, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Well, if he calls himself "KABA-chan" in English, then we should too.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 19:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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