Talk:Kamarupa/Archive 1

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Some historical points were corrected.

• Pragjyotisha has been mentioned as both the name of the city as well as the kingdom. For example, Bhagadatta in the Mahabharata fought in the battle with "kiratas, chinas and dwellers of the eastern seas". Though in the ancient times, the sea extended much further to the north, there is no evidence that it extended to Guwahati where Pragjyotisha is located. This indicates that at the time of Bhagadatta the kingdom of Pragjyotisha was much bigger than a city. The fact that Pragjyotisha stands both for a city and a kingdom means that the political entity that began as a city state evolved into a kingdom over time. Thus the reference---the capital of Kamarupa was called Pragjyotisha---told only half the story, and so was corrected. --- Chaipau 22:34, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

• The western boundary is the Karatoya, and Xuanzang's account matched the eastern boundary given in Kalika Purana. I have added the eastern boundary, which has been identified as the present-day Digaru river by B K Kakati and P C Choudhury. --- Chaipau 22:34, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

• The Kamarupa kingdom officially ended in the 12th century, when the Khen dynasty moved the capital to Kamatanagara near present-day Cooch Behar, and the kings began calling themselves Kamateshwars, or the "Lord of Kamata". This title was picked up by the later Koch dynasty too. The eastern regions of the erstwhile Kamarupa kingdom was anyway not in control of the Khen and the Koch dynasties, as the Barobhuyan, the Kachari kingdom and the Chutiya kingdom came to rule in these regions. Thus we can say that the Kamarupa kingdom ended in the 12th century. Thus the portion about Naranarayana's dynasty was removed since by that time, the Kamarupa kingdom was really history! --- Chaipau 22:34, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Pragjyotisha in Mahabharata

Thanks for the list of references. I have moved the references to Pragjyotisha in the Mahabharata to its own page to avoid clutter and loss of focus in the article. Chaipau 12:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Removed from Hindu Mythology Project

This page is on the history of Kamarupa and the focus should be on the history and not mythology. Chaipau 14:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Discussion on the boundary of Kamarupa

• [1]
• [2]

Please discuss the boundary of Kamarupa here.

Not a problem; I wasn't sure what would be the best place to discuss this. Honestly I'd rather discuss it on the image talkpages, since that makes it easier for me to keep track of changes and discussions regarding the maps. However, this page will also work.

Tibet and India, late 700 and 800 AD

Current East-Hem depiction of Tibet/India borders in 700 AD.

Suggested corrections for Kamarupa in 7th-8th Centuries, AD

Current East-Hem depiction of Tibet/India borders in 800 AD.

Concerns have been raised over the Tibetan Empire borders depicted in the East-Hem maps for 700 and 800 AD. Specifically regarding whether Tibet ruled large sections of northern India, including Kamarupa, Bengal, and the Gangetic plains. There are unfortunately few sources covering relations between medieval Tibet and India. Bengal and Assam are also lacking reliable sources for that time period.

Some of my sources regarding Tibet's expansion into Bengal and India:

• 1. Google Book's "History of Tibet" makes several mentions of Nepal as a Tibetan vassal, and also says that India's Pala Empire under Dharmapala accepted Tibetan overlordship. (Page 54)
• 2. The wiki-article, History of Tibet also mentions Tibetan military power extending to Bengal, in the section about Ralpacan (815-838 AD).
• 3. Huhai.net has a [map of Asia in 750 AD] that shows Tibet ruling Kamarupa, Bengal, and Pala.
• 4. DK Atlas of World History, 2000 edition, shows Tibet's borders in 800 AD, with northern India (the entire length of the Ganges, almost to the Indus river) ruled by Tibet. It's on pg. 262.

Tibet appears to have been rather active along their southern borders. We know Tibet subjugated Nanzhao twice (from 680-703, then from 750-794 AD). Nepal under the Licchavis was apparently subjugated also. This was about the same time as the collapse of the Pyu city-states in Burma, the end of the Varman Dynasty and the beginning of the Mlechchha dynasty in Kamarupa. It's possible Tibet also subjugated part of northern India. It may not have been an actual conquest; it could have been raids for plunder or marriage alliances.

(This is also being discussed on Talk:Kamarupa (History) and History of Tibet. I've posted this here to get more input. Any assistance is appreciated! I need to find out more information before I can correct the maps, if they are incorrect. Thomas Lessman (talk) 06:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Kamarupa in the Tibet kingdom becomes all the more improbable about 800CE since Harjaravarman, a major king of the Mlechchha dynasty ruled Kamarupa from about 815CE. Epigraphs are available from his reign, and they do not mention a Tibetan rule, but indicate a continuation of the dynasty from about 655CE. I do not have access to the epigraphs or the commentaries, and I shall provide details when I get them. Chaipau (talk) 14:45, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

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This article could perhaps be a copyright infringement and may have to be rewritten. Other articles by User:Knightt [3] may have the same problem.

According to [4] Works produced before 1923 are public domain.

The dates of some of the theosophical encyclopedias are:

EG | Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary - 1999 | G. de Purucker, ed. FY | Five Years of Theosophy - 1885 | H. P. Blavatsky, ed. GH | Gods and Heroes of the Bhagavad Gita - 1939 | Geoffrey A. Barborka IN | An Invitation to the Secret Doctrine - 1988 | Grace F. Knoche, ed. IU | Isis Unveiled - 1877 | H. P. Blavatsky KT | Key to Theosophy - 1889 | H. P. Blavatsky MO | The Masks of Odin - 1985 | Elsa-Brita Titchenell OG | Occult Glossary - 1933, 1996 | G. de Purucker PV | Esotericism of the Popol Vuh | Raphael Girard (glossary by Blair A. Moffett) SD INDEX | Index to The Secret Doctrine - 1997 | John P. Van Mater SF | Search and Find - 1978 | Elsie Benjamin SK | Sanskrit Keys the Wisdom Religion - 1940 | Judith Tyberg SKf | Sanskrit terms from Fundamentals of the Esoteric Philosophy, by G. de Purucker, 1932. SKo | Sanskrit terms from The Ocean of Theosophy, by William Q. Judge, 1893. SKs | Sanskrit terms from The Secret Doctrine, by H. P. Blavatsky, 1888. SKv | Sanskrit terms from The Voice of the Silence, by H. P. Blavatsky, 1889. SP | Sanskrit Pronunciation - 1992 | Bruce Cameron Hall TG | Theosophical Glossary - 1892 | H. P. Blavatsky VS | Voice of the Silence - 1889 | H. P. Blavatsky WG | The Working Glossary - 1892 | W. Q. Judge WGa | Terms from The Working Glossary Appendix WW | Word Wisdom in the Esoteric Tradition - 1980 | G. de Purucker

Thus the following encyclopedias among others could probably be used as they seem to be in public domain:

• KT | Key to Theosophy - 1889 | H. P. Blavatsky (Glossary)
• TG | Theosophical Glossary - 1892 | H. P. Blavatsky

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The THEOSOPHICAL UNIVERSITY PRESS has granted reprint in Wakipedia under the terms that the source is identified. See below for details.

'Dear Brendan:

Thanks for your email and request to reprint in the Wikipedia some definitions from our Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary. You have our permission to do so provided that each entry identifies its source (Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary), if only to let people know its perspective.

As the ETG is a work-in progress (so mentioned at the top of each page), please be aware that some terms may reflect dated or inaccurate scholarship -- I am thinking especially of some of the Mesopotamian terms. The Sanskrit, Tibetan, Greek, Roman, and theosophical terms are all pretty good; the Egyptian may be incomplete.

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