Talk:Karapinar

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Macar araştırmacı Dr. İspay Ferenc. Ve ilk önce İzmit/Gebze’ye neden sonra Antalya’nın Serik ilçesinin Gebiz nahiyesine yerleştiler.Günümüzde Karapınar,Yunuslar ve Kahyalar gibi mahallelerde ikamet ediyorlar.Seracılık yapıyor,pamuk,susam,zeytin,buğday ve arpa yetiştiriyorlar.

According to (a few) Turkish sources, citing Dr. Ispay Ferenc all the same, the Hungarians in question would have at first settled in Gebze, near İstanbul, and in the 1830's, for fear of being reclaimed by the Russian forces who had landed and remained for a brief period in the Bosphorus (very close to Gebze), at a moment of alliance with the Ottoman Empire -against Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt-, they were reportedly made to settle in the locality of present-day Gebiz (that they named after their previous town of residence, thence Gebiz=Gebze). Their descendants would be the inhabitants of the quarters named Karapınar (the title of this article), Yunuslar and Kahyalar, in Gebiz. Therefore, Karapinar is simply one of the quarters of the town. Perhaps we can name the article into something like, (possible) "Hungarian descendants of Gebiz". Cretanforever 20:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Wow, very interesting, thanks. So Karapınar = Karapinar? I thought the village was at the seaside. If you are correct, we can simply merge the contents of this article into the Karapınar page. Another suggestion is that we start an article called Hungarians in Turkey. Please let me know what you think. —Khoikhoi 05:36, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

There must be at least 20 different localities called Karapınar in Turkey. This one (the one where supposed Hungarians are supposed to live) in Gebiz, a municipality depending Serik in Antalya Province. The best would be to treat the issue under an article for Gebiz for the moment, till there are more sources on the Hungarian-ness of the concerned. Cretanforever 11:09, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

So I guess we can either move this article to Gebiz, or create it. —Khoikhoi 18:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I will gather some basic info on the township (never been there myself:), and then start the article (probably tomorrow), and then we can redirect this article and transfer its content onto Gebiz. We can direct a Hungarians in Turkey option as well (for the time-being, till there's more & better info). Regards. Good night:) Cretanforever 18:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright. My only concern, however, is that Karapınar and Gebiz are not the same town, and therefore a redirect would be inappropriate. Perhaps we could redirect it to Hungarians in Turkey instead (for now). Then of course you can still create the Gebiz article. İyi geceler! :-) —Khoikhoi 01:31, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The problem is; these "Hungarians" might turn out to be as Hungarian as the Hamshenis are Armenians:) It might boost tourism and general interest, but it might be incorrect in every other sense. I have sent a few messages to people who may know better, I am waiting for their answer. Cretanforever

Or perhaps as Hungarian as the Magyarab. :-) I'll ask some people as well. —Khoikhoi 17:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I've found a few more sources in Hungarian: [1], [2], [3], [4] - all of them cite Tibor Beder, a Hungarian from Romania, who visited the village in question first in 1990. Following his visit, the Hungarian village of Csíkszentdomokos became the twin village of Macarköy, and there was a ceremony in July 2006 when a traditional Székely gate was set up in Macarköy (in case you've never seen one, here's the article on huwiki). Back to the questions, none of these sources mentions the name Karapinar, only Macarköy, or Macar-Gebiz, or Gebiz-Macar. The story is the same everywhere, it says that a community of Magyars was carried to Turkey and settled first in a place called Gebiz or Gebze near Istanbul, but one of the neighbouring villages had a Circassian population they couldn't get on with, and thus they finally fled to their current place which they named Macar-Gebiz to remind them of both their previous homes. All of the sources also say that the current inhabitants self-identify as Macar, but do not speak any Hungarian. So "as Hungarian as the Magyarab" is probably accurate. KissL 11:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the message Khoikhoi:) I got into direct contact with some people who are actually from Gebiz, Antalya Province, and the main lines of the subject seem confirmed. They will get back to me with more info. And they told me that a commemorative structure was erected in the place (without being more precise, I am assuming it is the Szekelykapu - funny that "kapı" means door in Turkish, too:)) I am hoping that they will get back to me with photos of Gebiz. Will keep in touch. The subject is very interesting. Cretanforever 01:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome! :-) Thanks for the info (to both Kissl & Cretanforever), I hope that we hear back from them as well. Ciao, Khoikhoi 03:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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