Talk:Karavasta Lagoon

Yet again removal of top graded scholarship by the same editor

Ktrimi launched again severe but but unfounded accusations against the specific scholars [[1]] yet with the excuse as supposedly already noted for its severe competence issues on the Albanian language. In the case of Vurg Kyriazis was also falsely accused for... incompetence nevertheless Ktrimi accepted Kyrizais' version as soon as Demiraj provides the same statement about Greek etymology.

Well (unfortunately) Demiraj also provides a Greek etymology of Karavastas in agreement to Kyriazis. Generally speaking the way to selectively remove sources simply because of a strict national POV is not the best way of productive editing.Alexikoua (talk) 13:22, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

To reply to this weird explanation [[2]]: the use of modern Greek in literature was first attested around 11th century. I don't know why Bato stubbornly opposes the claim of being a loan from modern Greek with the excuse that it was already used... hhmmm later.Alexikoua (talk) 13:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Kyriazis' issues have been noted on several articles (e.g. Himara and Filiates). Well (unfortunately) Demiraj also provides a Greek etymology of Karavastas in agreement to Kyriazis What is unfortunate is that you are talking about an issue that does not exist. The issue is not the Greek etymology of Karavasta (even the dumbest of the dumb understands that Karavasta is a non-Albanian word). The issue is that the s->sh thing is used for other things, not to tell if a word entered Albanian through Medieval or Modern Greek. When Albanian stopped making the s->sh phonetic change, Modern Greek had not come to existence yet. On Vurg, the etymology stuff was not added even after you found Demiraj. All editors, apart from you, reached that consensus. Ktrimi991 (talk) 13:36, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Kyriazis does not even know where Karavasta is. It is not "near Vlora" as he thinks. He probably mistakes if for Narta Lagoon. Btw, where does he mention "Modern Greek"? He says it is a "relatively new" loan. Indeed, it is when compared to ancient and the earliest medieval loans where the s->sh change has been made. But that does not mean it is from Modern Greek. Albanian stopped making the s->sh change around 800 AD (before 1000 AD). If Kyrazis really says Karavasta is a loan from Modern Greek, it is his problem. If he does not say it and you made that kind of conclusion, then the problem is yours. Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:18, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Kyriazis is an expert on local toponymity and he also provides extensive descriptions of the Narta Lagoon, I won't agree that scholars make so stupid mistakes on their research. I also fail to see any discrepancy in Filiates or in Himara.

Kyriazis cites Cabej about Karavasta being a modern Greek loan (Çabej ό.π.: Από νε. καραβόστασις. ) νε means νεοελληνική=modern Greek.Alexikoua (talk) 18:09, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: The statement which was added by Alexikoua (It entered in the Albanian language in a period when the s > sh phonetic change was no longer active as such being a loan from modern Greek) is misleading because this term couldn't have entered the Albanian language during any pre-medieval period because it's not any ancient word, but a medieval Byzantine Greek term. A modern (post-koine) Greek loanword couldn't have any st > sht development which belongs to the Proto-Albanian period.--Maleschreiber (talk) 19:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

The relevant accurate content is already included, no need to add misleading information. – Βατο (talk) 19:19, 12 July 2023 (UTC)