Talk:Karl Brandt

A little help please

Anyone know if he was related to Rudolf Brandt, who was also sentenced to death?

[1] says they weren't. They were born in different towns, also. Morwen - Talk 13:34, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Karl Brandt Developed The Procedure of Lethal Injection As A Means Of Killing People

Might not be a very popular FACT that a Nazi developed the most common means of Capital Punishment used in the United States today, but a little research would prove to you that it is indeed a NPOV FACT. Just because he was a Nazi does not change the fact that he developed and was the 1st to use it as a means of killing people. Just because it is unpopular and/or you were not aware of this fact does not mean it should not be included. Please do your homework next time before assuming it is a hoax or before changing this article. Thanks.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.65 (talk • contribs) 07:49, April 24, 2006 (UTC)

A "little research" reveals that basically all statements on the Internet that Karl Brandt invented this procedure go back to one Richard Halperin, Southern Methodist University and anti-death penalty activist. What is clear and undeniable is that Brandt (one of the heads of the T4 euthanasia programme of the Nazis) did use lethal injections on a large scale. But where's the proof that he invented them? Our own article on lethal injection says: "The concept had been proposed in 1888 by J. Mount Bleyer in New York, but was not approved." (Unfortunately without a direct source, but see for instance [2].) That predates Brandt by some 50 years... Furthermore, I think that you'll have to separate clearly three different fields of application: euthanasia (in the sense of an aided voluntary suicide, e.g. for terminally ill persons), death penalty, and mass murder like the Nazi programmes. In short, claiming that the Nazi doctor Brandt invented the procedure and linking that directly to the U.S. death penalty is a biased oversimplification. Provide better sources! Lupo 08:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I think a reference needs to be sited from a non anti-death penalty site that states that karl brant invented lethal injection before this is allowed to stay. ER MD 21:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

In the spring of 2001 I was naïve enough to state on Wikipedia that Guglielmo Marconi was the "inventor" of radio. I thought this was the truth, but it turns out many people invented parts of what became useful wireless communication. After some discussion, the Marconi article boiled down to say he is often credited as the "father of radio." This phrase was there in the oldest archived version from July 4, 2001, and is still there today. For many things it just isn't meaningful to talk of one "inventor". The NPOV thing is probably to avoid that, and instead talk of something that that everybody can agree on, for example the date and number of an issued patent or how wide the method was deployed by him. I know nothing about Karl Brandt or about the death penalty. I just stumbled upon this discussion page in the Recent Changes when ER MD wrote the above comment. --LA2 22:05, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Guys, you realize that the paragraph ER MD removed actually debunks the claim that Brandt had invented lethal injections, using as source an anti-death penalty website? Neither the paragraph nor the source defend that bogus claim. I don't care whether it's in the article or not, as it is really a tangential issue, but I thought I'd just point that out. Lupo 06:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Lupo: its written in weasel words to couple lethal injection and the holocaust which is obviously the aim of anti-death penalty activists. I'll correct my statement: Placing the assertion that he is the father of lethal injection is misleading and it would never pass standards for an encylcopedia. I've had to remove the line "karl brant invented lethal injection from the lethal injection article multiple times. According to this webpage Bill weisman is the "father of lethal injection." [3] I know it would be nice to couple those things together to try and prove a political point. Also, read my statement again--site a NON anti-death penalty site. ER MD 05:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Arrest by the Gestapo in April 1945

Can't seem to find any description here of what it is that the Nazis accused Dr Brandt of doing. Was it simply a case of the Gestapo going crazy and rounding up all suspected non team players or something, given the declining fortunes of Germany at that time? knoodelhed 08:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

i was wondering the same. The german Wikipedia entry for Karl Brandt says the following: "In a conspiracy surrounding Hitler's personal physician Theo Morell, Brandt was at first fired from his position as Hitler's physican, then arrested on 16th April 1945, and personally sentenced to death by Hitler a few days later. Himmler delayed his execution, and Brandt was later released under orders from Albert Speer. Allied troops later arrested him along with the remains of Karl Dönitz's government in Flensburg." From here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Brandt

I found this:

Hitler ordered Karl Brandt to be summarily court-martialed because his Personal Physician and Reich Commissioner had allegedly allowed his wife and his child to be overtaken by American troops who were advancing to Thuringia. He was arrested for "defeatism and cowardice" and was sentenced to death on April 17, 1945. 165.189.169.190 (talk) 14:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Morrell and the Great Medical Row

Yes, this article lacks the key fact that while the official cause of Brandt's arrest was that he sent his family to a zone where they would be liberated by the Americans, the real cause was his quarrel with Morrell as described in Hugh Trevor-Roper's "Last Days of Hitler". Trevor-Roper is considered one of the foremost scholars on the subject of Nazi Germany and inclusion of this "great medical row" as he describes it would make this article more comprehensive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.30.15.249 (talk) 11:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. Clear primary topic. I think Jenks24's search results can be better explained by the fact that Karl Brandt (economist), as an economist, simply wrote a lot of books. Moreover, it's never ideal to have a disambig page for only two options. -- Hadal (talk) 19:30, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Karl Brandt (physician) → Karl Brandt – I am asking for this to be made into the primary topic. Karl Brandt - the Nazi physician, mass murderer, and Hitler's personal physician - is far more notable than Karl Brandt (economist).Hoops gza (talk) 07:45, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I believe that would be okay; as for the latter guy (who's article is only a "stub", he should be left as: Karl Brandt (economist). Kierzek (talk) 13:47, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

• Hmmm, came here expecting to support, but I had a search of google books and the economist gets 16 of the first 20 hits (see search. On the other hand, the page view statistics show 3161 views this month for the physician, compared with only 73 for the economist. I'm still unsure about this, but hopefully the links given might help others decide. Jenks24 (talk) 17:10, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
• Support - Primary topic resting primarily on public interest rather than notability. Marcus Qwertyus 02:08, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

POV intro - compare to featured article Albert Speer

I understand Karl Brandt is only rated start-class, but the intro to the article needs radical revision reduce the disproportionate emphasis and sensationalism focusing exclusively on his war crimes. Introducing the subject, "Karl Brandt (January 8, 1904 – June 2, 1948) was a German Nazi war criminal," (instead of actually introducing him w/o incendiary POV pushing and noting, for example, that he was a head and spinal surgeon in pre-WW2 Germany who became Hitler's escort doctor and so a member of Hitler's inner circle) suggests SO much effort in such a short space goes into breathlessly reporting how bad he was (" criminal human experimentation," "convicted of crimes against humanity"; "hanged") that the reader could be forgiven for thinking that the subject was popped out of his mother's womb ready to abort other not-yet-born babies (aka fetuses).

Compare the poor quality of the intro to Brandt's article with that of the Featured Article on Albert Speer (also a 'nazi war criminal'):

Berthold Konrad Hermann Albert Speer (March 19, 1905 – September 1, 1981) was a German architect who was, for a part of World War II, Minister of Armaments and War Production for the Third Reich. Speer was Adolf Hitler's chief architect before assuming ministerial office. As "the Nazi who said sorry",[a] he accepted moral responsibility at the Nuremberg trials and in his memoirs for complicity in crimes of the Nazi regime. His level of involvement in the persecution of the Jews and his level of knowledge of the Holocaust remain matters of dispute.

Speer joined the Nazi Party in 1931, launching himself on a political and governmental career which lasted fourteen years. His architectural skills made him increasingly prominent within the Party and he became a member of Hitler's inner circle. Hitler instructed him to design and construct structures including the Reich Chancellery and the Zeppelinfeld stadium in Nuremberg where Party rallies were held. Speer also made plans to reconstruct Berlin on a grand scale, with huge buildings, wide boulevards, and a reorganized transportation system.

In February 1942, Hitler appointed Speer Minister of Armaments and War Production. Under his leadership, Germany's war production continued to increase despite considerable Allied bombing. After the war, he was tried at Nuremberg and sentenced to 20 years in prison for his role in the Nazi regime, principally for the use of forced labor. He served his full sentence, most of it at Spandau Prison in West Berlin.

Following his release from Spandau in 1966, Speer published two bestselling autobiographical works, Inside the Third Reich and Spandau: The Secret Diaries, detailing his often close personal relationship with Hitler, and providing readers and historians with a unique perspective on the workings of the Nazi regime. He later wrote a third book, Infiltration, about the SS. Speer died of natural causes in 1981 while on a visit to London.

While Brandt's intro need not be so long, it does need to be radically revised to place his conviction and sentencing for war crimes into proper proportion to the sum total of his life, which cannot simply be distilled down into this as the one best lead sentence, "Karl Brandt (January 8, 1904 – June 2, 1948) was a German Nazi war criminal." Sheesh. joepa^T 20:11, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Done. joepa^T 22:36, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

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Sources; conflicting data.

It seems that a few of the sources are actually post on public forums, that doesn't seem to be a very credible source. I've also noticed that probably the most a authoritive source for information on Brandt, "Doctors of Death" by Philippe Aziz is not referenced once. Perhaps this article needs some serious verification? Morton.Michael.NC (talk) 23:35, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

The only sourcing I added is the WP:RS cites to Joachimsthaler and Hamilton. I agree it needs citing work and better cites than "Axis History Forum" should be used. I don't have time right now, but will try to look at it this weekend and see what else I have that can be used. Kierzek (talk) 13:48, 21 June 2018 (UTC)