Talk:Karl Heinrich Ulrichs

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‘’At age 14, he had his first sexual encounter.’’

What is the source of this statement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1012:B042:9CCC:694D:5B27:45E5:3280 (talk) 03:08, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Ulrichs invented a new word, Uranianism.

It seems that Ulrichs wrote (in German) about Uranismus, which could in English be rendered as Uranism. This latter form appears to be the more common (Google!).

Sebastjan

OK thanks for that Adam 13:38, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

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In 1862, Ulrichs took the momentous step of telling his family and friends that he was, in his own word, a Uranian. [.....] He also invented words for lesbians (Urninds), bisexuals (Uranodionings), and transsexuals (Zwitter).

Dear Dr. Adam Carr, - Based on my own feeble knowledge of the matter, and supported by Google search, I would prefer the following:

Urning (not Urnind) (noun) was Ulrichs's term for a homosexual man.

Dioning (noun) for a heterosexual man.

Uranian (adjective) for homosexual/gay.

The other terms I admit are unknown to me.

Sincerely yours, Sebastjan (Rep. of Malta)

Sebastjan, I took those details off an online biographical site, so if you know them to be in error, please make the appropriate changes. (I suggest you also become a User). Adam 11:43, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

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I am quite willing to make changes - but there are problems: How do English-speaking people pronounce German words? Shall I write a Urning or an Urning?

Sebastjan

An Englishman writes... it should be "an Urning" (rhymes with "burning"). DuncanHill 01:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Confusing terminology

I removed this sentence: Ulrichs also coined words for the female counterparts, bisexuals and intersexuals. because bisexuality and intersexuality are not the counterparts of male homosexuality and male heterosexuality. Either this was a big mistake, the words had different meanings then, or there's a strange translation. If anyone knows what's going on, please help. --Ephilei 08:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

in Ulrichs' publications he assumed that everything he wrote about men was reflected for women. He called lesbian women 'Urnind". He received letters from men attracted to both men and women so he called those men "Uranodioning". Finally he read about and was told about intersex individuals living as male and sexually attracted to men so included them as part of the spectrum of urnings too. Hope this helps. My source is Ulrichs books and my own book "The Correspondence of Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, 1846-1894" 149.144.30.176 (talk) 02:40, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I made an Ulrichs terminology table

Not sure if there's a way to integrate it into the article.

Term	Meaning
Urning	Gay man
Dioning	Straight man
Urningin	Lesbian
Dioningin	Straight woman
Mannlinge	Masculine gay man
Weiblinge	Feminine gay man
Uranodioning	Bisexual man
virilisierte Mannlinge	Closeted gay man
uranisierter Mann / Uraniaster	"man who acts like an Urning" (situational homosexuality)

I've drawn these from Licata, Salvatore; Petersen, Robert P (2013). The Gay Past: A Collection of Historical Essays. Routledge. ISBN 9781134735938. -- Brainy J ~✿~ (talk) 13:29, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Oh, there's already Uranian, which details all these and more.-- Brainy J ~✿~ (talk) 13:32, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

First openly gay man

Bookmarx The modern concept of homosexual identity as a fixed constant does not precede Ulrichs. Of course plenty of people before Ulrichs were exclusively attracted to the same sex and/or openly practiced homosexuality but they did not see it in terms of the modern concept of sexual orientation identity. (t · c) buidhe 00:52, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Buidhe In order to meet Wikipedia's editorial standards, at least one or more citations must be provided for this claim. While this might arguably be a correct assessment, it is not at all self-evident. Even facts which are almost universally agreed upon generally require citation. Providing references lends credibility to the argument, and allows it to be more thoroughly examined in context. Bookmarx (talk) 07:51, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

I came here to say sentences like 'Ulrichs became the first recorded homosexual to speak out publicly in defense of homosexuality' should be changed, whilst it is technicaly true, as you have noted, written like this in English article is unnecessarily confusing and would lead some readers to come away thinking the claim being made is that he was the first person to publicly defend homosexual action, not thinking about the modern concept of Homosexuality. Personally I think what it needs is just some kind of framing so it's clear what is meant in the larger context.

Maybe you could do the edit, @Buidhe, you seem to have a good grasp of this. SP00KYtalk 18:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

you can cite my forthcoming book for the statement "The modern concept of homosexual identity as a fixed constant does not precede Ulrichs."

The citation is: Pretsell, Douglas, Urning[TJ1] : Queer Identity in the German Nineteenth Century. Toronto: University of Toronto Press, in press.

The book will be published fully in coming months with a copyright date on 2024 131.172.50.145 (talk) 00:42, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Sounds like a great reference to use when it is published. Unfortunately Wikipedia requires that all sources used are publicly available (t · c) buidhe 03:56, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

It would be great if you could come and give us a reminder when published. Thank you. :) SP00KYtalk 19:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)