Talk:Karl Malden/Archive 1

Archive 1

Quote about him being a proud Serb

Why someone has moved the sentence which Karl gave for Serbian national TV and be his mouth can be heard... it is not a written and not checked sentence and he gave it out few years ago. Please put it back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBS0vC90kxM

It is at the begining in the 25-35 and on...109.92.4.193 (talk) 03:13, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Choir

On the Wiki article page, it says as a youth he was in the Carol George Choir. It actually is the Karageorge Choir. Again, Karageorge Choir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.13.141 (talk) 23:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

English grammar being corrected

For the great 94 year-old Karl, I am (as warned) correcting the grammar on this page. I did the first paragraph today, more later. I changed nothing factually, just the grammar. Hey, Karl Malden fans, chip in. JamesMadison 07:15, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to help – I'm a huge Karl fan – and I will, but first I've got to do some reading on Karl's career using other sources, because I'm totally confused about the references to Patton and General Bradley:

"...on this film, he played an officer who had an injured brother, in real-life, which proved to be the blockbuster movie of 1970, after all the movies he starred in (A Streetcar Named Desire and On the Waterfront)."

Did General Bradley have an injured brother, or did Karl have an injured brother, or is this bit about the brother in reference to something else entirely? I've seen most of Karl's movies and I've seen Patton at least 100 times (probably more), but I'm completely lost here! Is it simply bad translation or am I missing something important about Patton and/or Karl's career and/or Omar Bradley and/or Tennessee Williams and/or 1970? - ddlamb 05:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

English grammar on this page is horrible

Karl Malden is a great American actor who has appeared in some of the greatest American films of the 20th century.

But parts of this page looks like they were translated from a foreign language by an internet translator program. It's that bad.

I will gladly clean it up. I'm just letting you know beforehand. JamesMadison 08:12, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I was just thinking the same thing. On Karl's 94th birthday, he deserves better.

Chicago or Gary?

Hi, you write Karl Malden was born in Gary, Indiana. But that is incorrect. According to his autobiography he was born n Chicago. Best regards Martin

Gary, Indiana is a city near Chicago. His IMDB biography confirms this. Nikola 15:54, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Karl Malden is Serbo-Croatian origin by his father side

Mladen Sekulovic has always been Yugoslav but has always said his origin is Croatian. The Sekulovic family came to USA from a village which is Croatian in Hercegovina. I think he has some Serbian blood, perhaps his fathers mother, hence he soemtimes is said to be Serbo-Croatian or even mistaken as just Serbian origin. The Sekulovic last name is very popular all cross the Balkans but most will confirm the origin is Croatian and is from Hercegovina.

THANKS DEAR GOD, AT LEAST THIS IS SOMETHING MAN HIMSELF SAID ON TV THAT HE IS A SERB AND FEEL SERBIAN AND IS PROUD SERB. YOU CRAOTS TRY TO FAKE AND STEAL SO MANY THINGS. THAT IS PATHETIC. WIKIPEDIA IS A GOOD PLACE AS ANYONE CAN WRITES STUPIDITY. FORTUNATELY THIS VIDEO EXPLAINS HOW PROUD SERB KARL MALDEN WAS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBS0vC90kxM So he didn't have some Serbian blood... he was proud Serb himself. :) Words "perheps, even mistaken... "... Fakers...

I remember watching Karl Malden in an hour-long interview on CBC with Pamela Wallin in late 1990s. He talked at length about his Serbian father, growing up in a community full of Serbs, and about visiting Belgrade which had just been through NATO bombing at the time. If he, himself says he's Serbian, that's good enough for me.65.94.139.154 04:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure you are 100% correct..Karl Malden is Serbian but the origin of his last name (ancesty) is Croatian. Its not important ...its just a note....after a while the sekulovich family living in the USA will be American so all this wount matter.....I was just talking about his origin....He is Serbs now. was Croat and will be American...if that makes any sence...........What someone is today is one thing and origin is another........Karl is Serb but of Croat origin is what i was getting at....the town of his father is Croatian in Bosnia.

You just stop talkin Shit. He was Serb of Serbian Origin and thats it. He never ever was of Croatian Origin neither from Hercegovina but from Serbia. And one thing: Hercegovina is not Croatian but Bosnian Land .. there are not "Croatian Villages" only .. but "Serbian" Villages and "Muslim-Bosnian" Villages too, thats because Bosna and Hercegovina is one Country, He was never a Croat nor will he ever be - Mladen Sekulovic (both Serbian Names) is of pure Serb Origin. And thats all about it.

What a nonesense! Karl was a pure Serb and in emission on Serbian national TV journalist Mira Adanja Polak gave to him a book as a gift from the Sekulovics from the Republika Srpska about the origin of that Serb family and it was written in Serbian Cyrillic, so Karl said that he mainly forgot to read Cyrillic. Please, stop writing stupid things about famous Serbs who were proud of being Serbs like Karl was. You have his live words, thanks God, so noone can fake facts like the attempts with some others (ie. Serb scientist Rudjer Boskovic). 178.253.217.190 (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Who cares about his origin. MK013 20:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Karl Malden cared! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBS0vC90kxM

Extraction is biographical info, hence it matters to this biography. Information yes (talk) 13:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Original surname

We now say that his family name was Sekulovi?, but in the next para it's spelled Sekulovich. How was it actually spelled? JackofOz 02:54, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

The original surname is spelled Sekulovi? but the actor might have been born as Sekulovich. Often when European immigrants first arrived to Ellis Island their surnames were often mis-spelled sometimes purposely and sometimes by accident. This probably happened to his father when he arrived to America from Herzegovina. Also, if this happened purposely it was mostly so that the surname would be easier to pronounce in the English language. - Zec 19:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, thanks. As I suspected, the spelling of the surname was changed before Mladen (Karl) was born. That means his name at birth was Sekulovich, not Sekulovi?. The fact that it used to be Sekulovi?, or anything else, is not relevant. JackofOz 01:20, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

It seems a bit questionable to categorize him in Category:People from Republika Srpska when he was born 80 years before its creation, in the United States. I know, his father is from someplace presently within his borders, but that seems stretching things quite a bit. --Saforrest 21:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

IT IS BEING WRITTEN SEKULOVIC AND SPELLED SEKULOVICHDzoni 15:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

P.S.HE IS 100 PRECENT SERB,I MET HIM WHEN HE VISITED BELGRADEDzoni 15:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Many mistakes

I am currently reading Karl Malden's autobiography, When Do I Start? and I am finding that much of the information on here is incorrect. For example, it said that he loved to play football and that is how he broke his nose. He did not enjoy football and actually broke his nose playing basketball. There are many other mistakes that I have fixed and others that I plan to once I read that far.

In my opinion it totally misses the gem of his career, which is having starred in the original run of A Streetcar Named Desire. I plan on adding to it later.

Does anyone know if he really had a nose job? That has not been mentioned in the book so far which it seems it would be, and it just does not seem to have been a likely thing to have happened considering his financial situation, community, and that it was the Depression. I think this is a rumor. If anyone "nose" please let me know or change it! :)

I agree that the grammar is horendous.

Also, Malden was not even ALIVE in 1906, let alone arriving in San Fransisco on the same day...he would have had to have been something like 110-115 years old when he died if he had. Dunno if that bald-faced LIE has been deleted or not. But it should be. It's very disrespectful, whether or not you knew Malden or his work.98.209.67.70 (talk) 04:06, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Go to town. It would be great if you could put a reference after each statement saying what page of the book it came from. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Marriage

Is Art Linkletter's marriage now longer longer than Lane's? His article says he's been married to the same woman since 1935.--T. Anthony 13:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

The Far Side

Has anyone seen the Far Side Comic where Karl is in a basement with a bunch of wallets??? The caption reads "Karl Malden in his basemant" Its in Far Side Gallery 4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.240.27 (talk) 07:32, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Usenet

Not sure whether or how it should be included in this article, but "alt.fan.karl-malden.nose" is famous in Usenet history as the starting point of the notorious Meow Wars... AnonMoos (talk) 09:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Bileća or Danilovgrad?

Did Maldens family on the father's side come from Bileća in Herzegovina or from Danilovgrad in Montenegro?--Carski (talk) 22:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Sekulovic/Sekulovitch family had nothing to do with Croatia or even Bosnia. Even tough there are Sekulovich families all over Balkan, the origin is from Danilovgrad, Montenegro. One part of the family did emigrate to Bosnia, and Kosovo, escaping from revenge of the other Montenegrin tribe, and also, execution of royal family Petrovic( Knjaz Danilo Petrovic made genocide over Bjelopavlici in the 19 century) , but they all are from Montenegro. Sekula, as root of surname Sekulovic, is Serbian and Montenegrin name, NOT USED among Croatian at all. So, please, enough with this stupidity about Karl Malden's Croatian background. He was Serb, stated himself as Serb, and also explained his origin several times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.155.33.33 (talk) 14:07, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Religion?

He played a reverend in 'Pollyanna'; does anyone know his real religious affiliation so it can be put into the infobox? Invmog (talk) 00:12, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Captains Courageous

He also played a ship's captain and was one of the main characters in Captains Courageous. Invmog (talk) 00:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

(Not the 1937 film version, obviously.) Invmog (talk) 00:23, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Karl Malden was a Serbian American

I couldn't help noticing that a couple of editors take exception to listing Karl Malden as a "Serbian American." Please don't continue to remove this description without a valid reason and without discussion here, leading to consensus. Wikipedia does not allow discrimination or bigotry. If you have a problem calling Malden a Serbian American, then you are showing a lack of civility and unnecessary sensitivity to adding an ethnic origin to a person's name. Check out this page if you are in doubt: Being Serbian American.

One of the reversions did at least give a reason relating to the opening paragraph of a biography. However, in this case it could be argued that Karl Malden's Serbian origin was very much a part of his notability, especially for those people who are proud of their Serbian/Yugoslavian origin, or from Bosnia and Herzegovina. There is no harm in identifying his origins, except to bigots who would prefer that Americans suppress their ethnicity. You might not be aware that according to the Wiki article, Karl Malden "was fluent [in Serbian] till his death." Obviously, he cared to maintain this fluency throughout his life.

I quote, "Born Mladen Sekulovich, he always regretted that in order to become an actor, he had to change his name. Since he was proud of his heritage, when he starred in a movie or on TV, he often insisted that a character carry his family name. For example, "in 'On The Waterfront', Fred Gwynne's character was named 'Sekulovich'." --taken from Karl Malden. Other examples are given in the article. This should be enough on its own to justify mentioning his ethnic origin (Serbian) by simply adding it as a modifier of American. Also, if "Serbian" comes before "American" it is taking second place anyway to being an American, as he obviously was born in the USA.

If an editor reverts more than three times in 24 hours he/she will be in danger of being blocked as an editor (see: The three-revert rule). Once a dispute has been moved to the Talk Page, there are several ways to resolve the dispute (see WP:DR). --Skol fir (talk) 02:43, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

You might notice that this discussion was already started with some anonymous editor (Section 6 above) claiming about 1 1/2 years ago that Malden was partly Croatian. I have never seen any evidence put forward for this claim. The confusion may have arisen from the fact that Malden's roots were traced back to a village called Podosoje near the city of Bileća, in the mostly Serbian portion of southeast Bosnia-Herzegovina. It turns out that in a thin portion of Croatia that hugs the western side of B.-H., there is also a village by the name of Podosoje. However, this Croatian equivalent is farther from Serbia, and is not related in any way to Malden's heritage. Also, in Section 1 above (Quote about him being a proud Serb) there is actually a link to a YouTube video which shows Malden proclaiming in English that he was a proud Serb all his life. Someone suspiciously removed this video (another bigot in the ranks?).

I also dug up some more facts about the interview on CBC with Malden, conducted in the '98-'99 season by Pamela Wallin (now a Senator in Canada).

Date: 1998-09-07
Guest: Karl Malden
Topic: A Legend from The Streets
produced by Moira Dann

From Gary, Indiana to The Streets of San Francisco… It's been quite a voyage for Karl Malden. From the New York stage in its golden age, to the silver screen, in films such as Streetcar Named Desire and On the Waterfront, to a TV career as Lieutenant Mike Stone in The Streets of San Francisco. An hour with American success story Karl Malden. see: Pamela Wallin- Television

I direct you to an anonymous editor's remarks from the earlier discussion I mentioned: "I remember watching Karl Malden in an hour-long interview on CBC with Pamela Wallin in late 1990s. He talked at length about his Serbian father, growing up in a community full of Serbs, and about visiting Belgrade which had just been through NATO bombing at the time. If he, himself says he's Serbian, that's good enough for me. 65.94.139.154 04:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)"

Clearly, Malden is more Serbian American than just American, and this justifies leaving the Serbian modifier in the lede of the article. --Skol fir (talk) 09:50, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether he was proud to be Serbian American or not proud. The issue isn't whether he WAS Serbian American or not, the issue is whether it should be stated in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the article. As WP:MOSBIO says, "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability". Malden wasn't famous for being Serbian American, and it wasn't relevant to how or why he was famous; he was famous for being an actor who played many roles, the large majority of which (or perhaps all of them) being non-Serbian characters. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 06:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

All Hallow's Wraith, you have overlooked one option in Wikipedia: IAR. (See Wikipedia:Understanding IAR). In particular, in this article it states:

The essence of ignorance --

Two important implications of this policy are:

You can contribute to Wikipedia without needing to know what the rules are.

If there's a better way to do something than what the rules say, do it the better way.

Well, that supports my contention that there is a better way to handle ethnicity. If the subject of a bio himself confirmed and welcomed being included in an ethnic group, it should be noted up front, not limited to the body of the article.

--Skol fir (talk) 06:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Apparently, my approach seems to have succeeded at other articles on Wikipedia. Look at the articles for Peter Bogdanovich or Brad Dexter as examples. What makes them any more eligible to be called Serbian American in the opening paragraph? Should we start taking this adjective out of all the articles in Wikipedia that mention this? That would look like "ethnophobia" to me. In the case of Arnold Schwarzenegger, what part of his notability is Austrian? ...maybe being Mr Universe at age 20, when he was still in Austria (known only to a select group of Americans interested in body-building)? ...maybe the accent? Although his real notability comes only out of his movie roles after arriving in the USA, and the Governorship of CA, his opening paragraph states Austrian-American. --Skol fir (talk) 20:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Always being one for thoroughness—must be that darned German in me—I checked to see in what part of Bosnia and Herzegovina Malden's father had resided. It turns out to be Herzegovina! "In the modern Bosnian-Herzegovinian state, Herzegovina is divided between two entities, Republika Srpska and the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Republika Srpska's part of Herzegovina, commonly referred to as East Herzegovina or, as of late, Trebinje Region is administratively divided into municipalities of Trebinje, Bileća, Gacko, Nevesinje, Ljubinje, Berkovići, Istočni Mostar and Foča." So one could argue that Malden is not even Serbian (as the Serbian border runs east of Malden's dad's former hometown). In fact, Malden's geographic origin is Herzegovinian. So we can no longer even discuss this issue, because I have just dug up another can of worms. Let's leave it at that, and let Malden be American. Otherwise, it is getting far too complicated, and I might just get too many stings if I try to enter this hornet's nest. --Skol fir (talk) 20:48, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Nothing makes Dexter or Bogdanovich more eligible to be listed as Serbian American in the first sentence. They shouldn't be. And Ah-nold was born and raised in Austria and had Austrian citizenship for much of his life. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 07:11, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

People you vandalize the page of one great person! Listen Karl Malden's voice, he said thanks God in English so you can hear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBS0vC90kxM From 00.32 he speaks

Someone who like myself was born in SERBIAN house, who was Christian in a Serbian church... I AM A SERB (00:50).

Respect him, let him rest in peace! Put that back! He was proud being a Serb! He belonged to a group of Serbian Americans. Do not vandalize the page of such a great guy who gave a lot to the USA and Hollywood. Be respectful!178.253.217.190 (talk) 20:08, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I have already said everything I wanted to say about this subject above, in January 2011, but I do want to point out again that Karl Malden's father was strongly Serbian in his culture and lifestyle, having come from the mostly Serbian portion of southeast Bosnia-Herzegovina. From everything that we know about Malden, he was proud to be Serbian. That did affect his notability, as stated in the article: "Malden often found ways to say "Sekulovich" in films and television shows in which he appears." Why would he do that, unless he felt very strongly about his Serbian connections? I should add here, that Malden's first acting experience was with the Serbian plays, produced by his father at his church. Most of these plays centered on the community's Serbian heritage.

I think Karl Malden's ethnic origin is a unique case, where Serbian American would be appropriate to mention in the first sentence of the lede. That means saying "Karl Malden (born Mladen George Sekulovich; Serbian Cyrillic Младен Ђорђе Секуловић; March 22, 1912 – July 1, 2009) was a Serbian American actor."

That's just my honest opinion. I also say, respect the subject's own wishes, not the wishes of certain selfish, bigoted and xenophobic editors here on Wikipedia! The reference given after the term "Serbian American" is a YouTube video of Malden professing adamantly that he is "Serbian". It obviously infused his personality, and hence his acting, which is a strongly personal line of work, where many influences underscore a person's performances. --Skol fir (talk) 02:56, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

His picture

Now that he's dead, shouldn't we have a picture of him in his prime, instead of him as an old man? I mean, all the old long dead actors and actresses are pictured as young people instead of old men.

I don't really care what happens, it just seems the respectful thing to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.71.2 (talk) 06:56, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

There are no better pictures with a free license on Wikipedia or Wiki Commons at this time. Until someone procures one which shows him at a younger age, we have no choice but to use the current photo. --Skol fir (talk) 21:36, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

The argument is senseless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:DB:63CD:CE01:B4D3:A62B:A514:8681 (talk) 20:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Serbian Language Edit

He was an ethnic Serb, therefore he spoke Serbian. He even mentions his Serbian language in that Youtube video above. Also, at the time of his birth and childhood, Serbo-Croatian was not established as an official language (it was before Yugoslavia) and it was very unlikely that any immigrants who came to America from Serbia, Croatia (etc...) at the beginning of 20th century called their language "Serbo-Croatian". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.189.134.138 (talk) 00:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

No, but Malden called his language that. The section on his early life is cited to the book, and he specifically refers to the language as Serbo-Croatian (see page 17). Drawing any inference about what immigrants called their language without a source is original research. —C.Fred (talk) 01:14, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

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