Talk:Karluks

Email

From an Email, I have received

Alex, hello, I am taking advantage of your E-mail offer on your Talk page. Would you please change the name of the Qarluq article from the Qarluq to Karluk. The reasons are as follows:

1. Nobody ever indicated why this funny spelling, whose dialect it tries to emulate, and what's the difference in Qa vs Ka or uk vs uq. 2. In the majority of the modern English publications, as well as in other languages with Latin script the accepted spelling is Karluk. Trying to cite a "Karluk" reference and transforming it to the "Qarluq" spelling creates a nonsensical situation. 3. Googling "Karluk" brings much more results then googling "Qarluq". 4. Googling "Karluk" brings much higher veriety of returns, reflecting the international usage of this spelling, while "Qarluq" in comparison is quite limited to a certain English zone. 5. Karluk as a last name is never spelled Qarluq. Surprisingly, the Karluks continue to carry their remote past, just like, for example, do the Alans and Franks. Have you seen a Frank spelled Phrank or Phrankh or Phranq? 6. I could cite more reasons. Much of the literature is in Russian, with its straightforward Karluk, etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex Bakharev (talk • contribs)

Discussion on etymology

I have moved the paragraph on etymology that caused objections to this discussion page, to open it up for discussion, because this paragraph is in sharp conflict with the referenced part of the etymology section:

"The name Karluk could be a derivative of Qara (Black) and "-lik" (people of, pertaining to), which literally means "Black folks". It is at different points of time, employed as a label contradistinctive of Sarlik, or "Yellow people". The color-label could be arbitrary, or otherwise describing physical characteristics of two different Turkic populations of east asian (black-haired) and yellow-haired features, respectively. Many Turkic confederations, such as the Hunnish ancestors of modern Kazakhs, the Kyrgyz, and the Western Turks employed this black-yellow distinction. This adds to the obscurity regarding the Karluks' true tribal affiliation. The Karluks' indentifying with the color black is perhaps attested in the exaltation of this color-symbol in the Karakhanid state." Barefact 06:33, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Khubila

Khubilai was one of Chingis khan's 8 companions. Please not confused with Great Khan Kublai who was born in 1215. When Karluks was conquered by Khubilai general, he was not born.--Enerelt (talk) 02:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

"non-autonomous home rule"

How can "home rule" be "non-autonomous"??? СЛУЖБА (talk) 00:51, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Talas effects on Chinese presence in Central Asia

According to Denis Sinor, the view that the Battle of Talas ended China's Central Asian presence is incorrect, it was after the battle that China shot itself in the foot by interfering with the Turkic Khaganate's affairs and ended China and their Turkic allies presence in the region.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ST6TRNuWmHsC&pg=PA344&dq=Indeed,+the+Talas+battle+in+75+1+in+which+the+Muslims+aided+by+the+Turkic+Karluks+stopped+the+Chinese+and+their+Turkic+allies+was+not,+as+Gibb+noted+,'+the+deathblow+to+Chinese+imperial+traditions+in+Western+Central+Asia.+Rather,+it+was+China's+meddling+in+the+murky+politics+of+the+Western+Turk+Kaghanate,+a+policy+that+contributed+to+the+latter's+destruction+and+thereby+removed+the+only+serious+opposition+the+Muslims+faced.+The+Arabs,+however,+did+not+seek+to+establish+themselves+deep+in+the+steppe.+Instead,+they+retired+to+the+ribats+(border+forts),+oasis+city-states+and+rich,+urban+trappings+of+the+Khorasanian+towns.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8mFkU8zyJ67jsASwjYGQCQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Indeed%2C%20the%20Talas%20battle%20in%2075%201%20in%20which%20the%20Muslims%20aided%20by%20the%20Turkic%20Karluks%20stopped%20the%20Chinese%20and%20their%20Turkic%20allies%20was%20not%2C%20as%20Gibb%20noted%20%2C'%20the%20deathblow%20to%20Chinese%20imperial%20traditions%20in%20Western%20Central%20Asia.%20Rather%2C%20it%20was%20China's%20meddling%20in%20the%20murky%20politics%20of%20the%20Western%20Turk%20Kaghanate%2C%20a%20policy%20that%20contributed%20to%20the%20latter's%20destruction%20and%20thereby%20removed%20the%20only%20serious%20opposition%20the%20Muslims%20faced.%20The%20Arabs%2C%20however%2C%20did%20not%20seek%20to%20establish%20themselves%20deep%20in%20the%20steppe.%20Instead%2C%20they%20retired%20to%20the%20ribats%20(border%20forts)%2C%20oasis%20city-states%20and%20rich%2C%20urban%20trappings%20of%20the%20Khorasanian%20towns.&f=false

http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Cambridge_History_of_Early_Inner_Asi.html?id=ST6TRNuWmHsC

Most of the Karluk Turks converted to Islam in the 10th century, two centuries (200 years) after the Battle of Talas.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qcPZ1k65pqkC&pg=PA230#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=uQ7k2vQlYxEC&pg=PA68#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=75FlxDhZWpwC&pg=PA68#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=imw_KFD5bsQC&pg=PA351#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fc69BhBDjhwC&pg=PA28#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=7E8gYYcHuk8C&pg=PA84#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Karluks also fought against the Uighurs.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ST6TRNuWmHsC&pg=PA352&dq=The+Oghuz+in+Kazakhstan+and+the+Syr+Darya-Ural+river+region+faced+continuing+pressure+from+tribes+to+their+east+who+were+moving+to+join+them.+They+were+also+engaged+in+what+for+us+must+remain+ill-defined+wars+and+raids+with+their+Kimek+and+Karluk+neighbors.+The+steppe+was+in+turmoil,+a+reflection+of+the+dislocations+caused+by+the+collapse+of+the+Turk+kaghanate+and+subsequent+Karluk-Uighur+and+Kirghiz-Uighur+wars.+The+migration+of+the+tribes+which+ultimately+came+to+form+the+Oghuz+of+the+Syr+Darya+should+be+viewed+in+this+context.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FmJkU420BYPesASN4oCADg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Oghuz%20in%20Kazakhstan%20and%20the%20Syr%20Darya-Ural%20river%20region%20faced%20continuing%20pressure%20from%20tribes%20to%20their%20east%20who%20were%20moving%20to%20join%20them.%20They%20were%20also%20engaged%20in%20what%20for%20us%20must%20remain%20ill-defined%20wars%20and%20raids%20with%20their%20Kimek%20and%20Karluk%20neighbors.%20The%20steppe%20was%20in%20turmoil%2C%20a%20reflection%20of%20the%20dislocations%20caused%20by%20the%20collapse%20of%20the%20Turk%20kaghanate%20and%20subsequent%20Karluk-Uighur%20and%20Kirghiz-Uighur%20wars.%20The%20migration%20of%20the%20tribes%20which%20ultimately%20came%20to%20form%20the%20Oghuz%20of%20the%20Syr%20Darya%20should%20be%20viewed%20in%20this%20context.&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 03:45, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

the map 'asia in 600', cuts off after note 30. Must be interference from "new policy' pop-up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.115.29.43 (talk) 03:46, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Which Karabulak?

In the article, it states that "Navakat (now Karabulak)" as one of the Karluk settlements. However, "Karabulak" is the name of several settlements in the region. Clarification is needed. Verified Cactus (talk) 19:07, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• East-Hem 600ad.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:09, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Addition of non-WP:RS

@BappoEdits: I'm getting deja vu here. Please explain why random and non-academic websites like like "ariaye.com" and "mundigak.com" are WP:RS as you claimed here [1]. And please also show me the rule that says it's okay to add unsourced information. If you can't do that, then I will revert you again, and if you continue reverting after that, you will get reported. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:15, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@BappoEdits: If only you were as fast as replying as reverting. You conveniently stopped editing after that. I'm giving you today to prove they're WP:RS. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, that was more than today. I've reverted it back. Feel free to participate in this talk page and achieve WP:CONSENSUS by addressing the concerns. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:32, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Gelu and Romanian historic character Gelou

Do the name of the Vlach or bulaq that appears in the gesta hungarorum and the ethnonym that the Chinese gave to the Karluks have anything to do with each other? If so, this should be talked about in the article. ​ CarpathianEnjoyer (talk) 20:54, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Addition of non-WP:RS part 2

Another user obsessed with linking the Karluks to the Hazaras without any WP:RS. @شارستانی: Feel free to show a WP:RS that supports your additions. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Aaaand @شارستانی: is adding more unsourced info [2]. WP:NOTHERE. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

And now شارستانی is trying to censor me [3] [4] [5] [6], absolutely brilliant idea. HistoryofIran (talk) 01:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Regardless you should not be removing other user's comment User:شارستانی which that is not allowed. Untamed1910 (talk) 04:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)