Talk:Kashubian language

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The number of speakers

The question in the Census was "What language do you use most often at home?". So even if we assume that the data from the Census are correct (which is doubtful for some reasons), then 53,000 is the number of people who often speak Kashubian at home rather than the total number of speakers. The total numer of speakers has to be considerably higher. This is why the estimate of 200,000 is better here. But I think it's a good idea to insert both figures. Boraczek 22:01, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Boraczek, 200 000 is nowadays not realistic, since it is quite difficult to find a person who can talk Kashubian fluently. And even if somebody is able to speak the language well, (s)he is very likely not to be doing so in everyday life, because of the pressure from the Polish-language majority. (I am a Kashubian speaker (revivalist), so I know this issue relatively well). 200 000 was indeed true some 50 years ago, after that there's been a very rapid decline in the number of speakers. Today, active users of the language are only: 1. the oldest generation 2. the revivalist movement, and they are definetely altogether not as numerous as 200 000.

The other thing is that the Census was ....ed up, many people were not allowed to declare Kashubian as the home language, and on the other hand many people who are only active users of Polish declared Kashubian, because they didn't want or weren't allowed to declare Kashubian nationality.

Despite that, the Census results are closer to the actual state than the 200 000 given by some activists/researchers. The sad fact is that due to the Polish policy of discrimination Kashubian is a dying language, with only a very small group of speakers among the youngest generations.

Pozdrawiam. UCZK 22:47, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"many people were not allowed to declare Kashubian as the home language,"

what does that mean? Were they expected to ask somebody's permission? Did they and were they denied permission (= not allowed)? 2A02:A312:C43D:DC00:B0E0:4507:19CD:9630 (talk) Wojciech Żełaniec

Minor Edit

The link Slavonic language takes a long time to load because it has to re-direct to Slavic languages. I'm going to change it to "Slavic language," Slavic being the most conventional English term anyway.

Joe -- --Jpbrenna 02:14, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Speakers in Canada?

Can someone provide a source for the presence of Kashubian speakers in Canada? The 2001 census does not even mention Kashubian among the scores of languages spoken in Canada.

Personal experience. I'm a descendant living in Wilno, ON. See www.wilno.org as a source. -zblewski

I quote from the site: In Canada, the Kashub language is still alive after 147 years. This language is spoken by fourth, fifth and even a few sixth generation Canadian Kashubs, but it is a language that is on the verge of being lost forever. The Society feels that we may have approximately 30 years before the language disappears.

That means that the youngest fully competent native speakers are probably in their fifties. By this logic, the infoboxes of languages like Italian, English, Chinese or German would contain more than 100 countries each. I do not think that the existence of one single formerly Kashubian speaking village provides sufficient ground for including Canada in the infobox. Unoffensive text or character 09:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I've always wanted to learn it from my great-grandparents, too. I am pretty proud of my heritage. I've gotten in contact with the Kaszub Society in Gdansk, but no reply.

I'm going to remove the references to Canada. I agree that it is pretty ridiculous to list it given the minuscule size of the community. Just because you're proud of your heritage doesn't mean you get to misrepresent information on here. --Mrowlinson 07:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

2 Lechitic languages?

Sometime ago I asked for citation re: a sentence in the lead which states that Polish is the only Lechitic language, apart from Kashobian, that is still spoken.
We definitely need citation on this because Lechitic Languages page lists Silesian as being another Lechitic language, and Silesian is definitely not extinct. I suppose it is a matter of conflicting classification of Silesian as either a dialect or a language, but the tendency among contemporary linguists is to treat it as a language.
Overall the word "only" seems unnecessary and dependent on conventions here, so I'll just change this bit so as not to imply the existence of only 2 lechitic languages.--109.196.118.133 (talk) 05:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

but is that 'tendency among contemporary linguists' a result of a truly scholarly insight, rather than mere Political Correctness? There are no scholarly criteria for distinguishing a dialect from a language anyway, except that that latter ought to have, to be a language, an army and a navy... Well, Kashubian has neither, not even a postal system of its own, or a fire brigade, for that matter. This whole dialect-language-issue is merely political. Linguistically, Kashubian is a dialect of Polish, very unlike most other dialects, though the Kociewie dialect is a "missing" (not missing, really) link between it and the rest of them, but if you like calling it a language, go ahead, we have speech freedom here (in Poland). But it escapes me how and why such things should be debated here. (Some people use the neutral term 'L-complex', and no doubt all dialects of Polish are different L-complexes than standard Polish, but so is German, French, Mohikan, Kiswahili, Aranda and what have you....). BTW, while not a speaker of Kashubian, I know some very competent speakers and writers of that L-complex, including a lady who virtually invented half of contemporary K. writing lingustic papers and books on Kashubian in Kashubian, published by the University of Gdańsk among other publishers. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem! 134.95.94.30 (talk) Wojciech Żełaniec

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dialect or language?

This article claims more than once both that Kashubian is a dialect and that it is a separate language. Neither piece of information is useful unless it excludes the other. So which is it, dialect or language? Or if you want to say that both are claimed, then what is the story about this disagreement? Deipnosophista (talk) 17:28, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

As a Polish native speaker I understand like 30% of Kashubian. Meanwhile I understand 90% of Ukrainian. If Ukrainian is a separate language, Kashubian is even more. 46.205.192.76 (talk) 20:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

@46.205.192.76 the view that Kashubian is a dialect started in the 20th century informed somewhat by a lack of knowledge and somewhat by nationalistic views. Almost no linguist today would call it a dialect, that's very much a fringe theory. Vininn126 (talk) 23:14, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

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Old Prussian , and Baltic in general, influence in K.?

Any scholarly first hand (not an encyclopedia, like Price's, note 9) reference for any such lexical or other influence of Old Prussian (or any other Baltic language) on Kashubian? I'd be rather surprised... 2A02:A312:C43D:DC00:3C9F:4A91:3200:43CA (talk) Wojciech Żełaniec —Preceding undated comment added 10:18, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

In fact, a Kashubian scholar whom I approached on that confirmed that while there are many more Germanisms (meaning: from High German) in K. than in standard Polish, few of them are from Low German (Low German started waning and losing status, being superceded by High Germany, in the early XVI century, so an old Low German influence on K. would have to have been much stronger than a more recent one from High German, which is hardly believable, if you know the situation here in Central-Northern Europe). Nor did she know any Baltic loanwords in K., she said 'some few scattered loanwords perhaps' and at best, by 'Prussian', she surmised, 'Prussian German' might have been meant, but even that she hardly knew anything about. Besides, for a time (in the XIX c.) Kashubia was (part of what was called) 'Western Prussia', so 'Prussian German' in this sense would mean 'official German in Kashubia' and that variant of German certainly heavily influenced Kashubian, no doubt about it. In short, while an average Anglo-Saxon reader has a very sketchy, spotty and confused idea of the linguistic, historical, ethnic, political and other relevant realities in this part of Europe, much in this article is bound to confuse her/him even more. 134.95.94.30 (talk) Wojciech Żełaniec —Preceding undated comment added 09:09, 22 October 2018 (UTC)