Talk:Kati Agócs

Updates to Main Article

Thank you Spintendo for your previous help with this article. It has been a learning journey for me and I have been working on learning to edit and giving back to the community. I am hoping that, given your earlier attention to this article, you might be able to help me with some important COI edits, as listed below. I understand this is a good deal of work, however, and I would be open to anyone helping with these items. Please let me know if these are in any way not following policy. Thank you KatiAgocs (talk) 19:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

1. Clarify citizenship Citizen of three countries: Canada, the U.S., and Hungary (European Union) Rationale: accuracy

Sources (2):

https://www.aspendailynews.com/arts_and_entertainment/aspen-music-festival-and-school-kicks-off-summer-season/article_d3aab09a-994d-11e9-aea4-7fb8b763c301.html

https://info.bmc.hu/en/composers/516-agocs-kati

{ Not done for now please clarify what wording you want adjusted/where you want this added. Rusalkii (talk) 05:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC) 2. Personal Life:

@Rusalkii and Rusalkii: - Hello @Rusalkii, and thank you so much for your edits! They are greatly appreciated. In regards to the triple citizenship, please replace the current lead with this text:

"Kati Ilona Agócs (born January 20, 1975) is a composer and a member of the composition faculty at the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston, Massachusetts. Born in Canada of Hungarian and American parents, she holds triple citizenship  in the U.S., Canada, and Hungary."

Thank you! KatiAgocs (talk) 23:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Update to “has one daughter, Olivia Sarai Beaser, and lives in Boston”

Rationale: accuracy; previous statement about personal life had no reference to support it

Source:

https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/50/edited_volume/chapter/3345004

(This is a book that my mother wrote in 2014. It includes a dedication to my daughter, and she mentions both I and my daughter by name. This is her only granddaughter).

 Partly done removed uncited and found another source for daughter since I can't access the book. Rusalkii (talk) 05:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

3. Was nominated for a Juno Award from the Canadian Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences in 2022 for Concerto for Violin and Percussion Orchestra

Rationale: 1. helps establish notability 2. thoroughness (there is already one previous nomination from 2017 listed in the article; this is a second Juno Award nomination in the same category, Classical Composition of the Year)

Sources (2):

https://junoawards.ca/awards/past-winners-nominees/page/242/?sortby=year&sort=DESC&search_year_val1=1995&search_year_val2=2022&search

https://www.cbc.ca/music/here-s-the-full-list-of-2022-juno-nominees-1.6371516

 Done Rusalkii (talk) 05:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

4. Was a voice student of Adele Addison

Rationale: accuracy/thoroughness, ie. including a full account of music studies, not only composition

Sources (2):

https://info.bmc.hu/en/composers/516-agocs-kati

https://www.ludwig-van.com/toronto/2024/07/09/the-scoop-banff-international-string-quartet-competition-updates-jury-competition-canadian-commission/

 Done

5. Add wikilink for Adele if possible

 Done Rusalkii (talk) 05:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for all of your help with this, @Rusalkii!

KatiAgocs (talk) 23:08, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

New Information

The article was out of date, so I added in new compositions, information about commissions and awards, all cited and in NPOV. Ecmotherwell (talk) 21:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

POV cleanup

I'll do some cleanup in the article to comply with WP:NPOV.Hansi667 (talk) 14:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Proposed Cleanup

Hello, this is Kati Agócs, composer. I respectfully request the following edits, with the intention of removing all promotionalism from this article. Here is the rationale for the cleanup: Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests#Edits_to_Kati_Agocs_page In the "music" section, second paragraph, I suggest that the following two sentences be cut (subtracted): "Kati Agócs’s music is lyrical,[7] emotionally direct, and dramatic, with clear overall architectures.[8][9] "One hears a natural affinity with vocal impulses,[10] fluid melodic lines,[11] and responsiveness to literature from different cultures.[10]" The previous two sentences may be replaced with the following: "Kati Agócs's catalogue comprises compositions for orchestra and chamber music, as well as solo instrumental and vocal works." In the "career" section, I suggest that the phrase "candid inside glimpse" be replaced by the phrase "an account of". Thank you, KatiAgocs (talk) 19:55, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Reply 12-OCT-2018

  Edit request partially implemented  

1. Y The first sentence you suggested was removed.
2. N The second sentence fragment could not be removed, as it made up part of a sentence, and you only suggested removing part of it. The entire sentence would need to be removed or reworded to be grammatical, and the suggestions you offered would not have met this task.
3. N The suggested additions were not made, because they would not have improved the article. The previous text, which discussed the artists "lyrical ... architecture" does not make much sense being replaced with a listing of the artist's catalog, especially at that point in the paragraph.
4. The COI editor should be aware that there is much more WP:FLOWERY language left which remains to be fixed.

 Spintendo  10:40, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Edits to Remove Flowery Language

Respectfully submitting the following changes with the intent of removing all flowery language from this article, as the last editor has suggested:

• Second Paragraph, second sentence:

“The work places meditations on the fragility of love and its expression within a larger religious narrative with elements of intense lament and exultation. [7][8] “ Subtract the word “intense”

• Second paragraph, penultimate sentence:

“Agócs performs her own works as a soprano soloist[11] and collaborates with instrumentalists to develop distinct techniques and musical colors.” Replace the word “distinct” with “specific”

• Second paragraph, last sentence:

“One of many such collaborations is her work with Bridget Kibbey to create a bluegrass piece for harp as part of the suite Every Lover is a Warrior(2006).[12]” Remove “of many” so that the sentence reads: “One such collaboration…”

• In the following sentence:

“Agócs has written on American music for the Journal Tempo[13] and also created a critical edition of the Symphony in A Major by Leopold Damrosch, father of Walter Damrosch.[14]” Replace the word “also” with “has”

• Under “Career”, first sentence:

“From 2005 to 2006, she lived in Budapest and wrote – with the support of a Fulbright Fellowship,[15] – a candid inside glimpse of the new-music scene in Hungary for the journal The Musical Times.[16] “ Replace “candid inside glimpse” with "an inside account of" or simply “an account of”

• Penultimate sentence of the same paragraph:

“In 2007 she was one of ten Canadian composers selected by CBC Radio to write a Prelude and Fugue for solo piano in honor of the 75th anniversary of Glenn Gould.[19” Replace “selected by” with “commissioned by”

• Next paragraph, first sentence:

“In 2014, the American Academy of Arts and Letters presented her with the Arts and Letters Award in Music, which "honors outstanding artistic achievement and acknowledges the composer who has arrived at his or her own voice".[23] “ Replace “presented her with” with “named her a recipient of”

• Under “Life and education”, fourth sentence:

“She accepted a full scholarship to Sarah Lawrence College based on a visual art portfolio, changing her focus to music in her junior year.” Replace “she accepted” with “she received” Thank you KatiAgocs (talk) 21:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

• Dear KatiAgocs, I'm sorry, but those proposed changes only scratch the surface... Drmies (talk) 21:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Further cleanup

Thank you Spintendo and Drmies for your help. I respectfully request the following cuts, building upon the work that these editors have done:

• Cut the following sentence entirely:

“In 2007 she was one of ten Canadian composers selected by CBC Radio to write a Prelude and Fugue for solo piano in honor of the 75th anniversary of Glenn Gould.[7]

• Cut the second photo (one photo is sufficient)
• Cut the following phrase:

“which "honors outstanding artistic achievement and acknowledges the composer who has arrived at his or her own voice".[11] -

• The previous sentence could be re-crafted to read simply:

“Agócs was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship in 2013,9][10] and the Arts and Letters Award in Music from the American Academy of Arts and Letters in 2014 (citation)”

• Cut the following sentence entirely:

“She began her teaching career at Memorial University of Newfoundland’s School of Music (2006–2008), and has been a member of the composition faculty of the New England Conservatory in Boston since 2008.[citation needed] “ (The New England Conservatory position is already stated at the beginning of the article, and we don’t have a citation for the year 2008)

• In the following sentence, cut the word “permanent”:

“She maintains a permanent work studio in Flatrock, Newfoundland”

• Cut:

“and is an Associate Composer of the Canadian Music Centre’s Atlantic Region.[citation needed]”

• Cut:

“In 2014 she was one of four composers commissioned by the Boston Symphony Orchestra to write a work for the orchestra's chamber group, the Boston Symphony Chamber Players.[12]” Under “Music”:

• Cut entirely:

“Kati Agócs's compositions have been commissioned and played by Eighth Blackbird, the Boston Symphony Chamber Players, the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, the American Composers Orchestra, the National Arts Centre Orchestra, Metropolis Ensemble, the CBC Radio Orchestra, the Minnesota Orchestra, the Cecilia String Quartet (the Cecilia commissioned and premiered her first string quartet, Tantric Variations[13]), and”

• The sentence can read simply:

“Boston Modern Orchestra Project recorded and released The Debrecen Passion, named one of the top 10 Classical albums of 2016 by the Boston Globe.[14] The title track of this album was nominated in 2017 by the Canadian Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences for a Juno Award, "Classical Composition of the Year.[15][16]”

• Cut the following sentence entirely:

“Her music was an Audience Choice winner at the SONiC (Sounds of a New Century) Festival in New York in 2011, and was archived at WQXR Radio.[17]”

• Cut the following paragraph entirely:

“Her work for chorus and orchestra The Debrecen Passion (2015) surrounds settings of poetry by Szilárd Borbély with mystical texts of Medieval Latin, Hungarian, and Georgian origin, as well as a Kabalistic prayer. [18][19] A homage to György Ligeti is found in the second movement of her quintet Immutable Dreams (2007).[20] She employs Serialist techniques to re-imagine a Bach chorale in Versprechen (2004).[21] Agócs performs her own works as a soprano soloist[22] and collaborates with other instrumentalists, including with Bridget Kibbey to create a bluegrass piece for harp as part of the suite Every Lover is a Warrior (2006).[23]””

• Regarding the following:

“Agócs has written on American music for the journal Tempo[citation needed] and also created a critical edition of the Symphony in A Major by Leopold Damrosch.[24]”: If you are calling for secondary sources regarding the Tempo article, I'm not aware of any. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/tempo/article/two-recent-concertos-by-george-tsontakis/7428DB430D769B122FF48E90EF1F928

• Here are two secondary sources regarding the critical edition of the Damrosch. I am not sure whether these meet the standards of the community:

1. Under External Links here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Damrosch 2. https://books.google.com/books?id=cmDHnHVQBiYC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=kati+agócs+damrosch+symphony&source=bl&ots=yLtWJNOn5K&sig=-w2aMzj-9QAgcYUUo-6UKLLX6lw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj3-vj9_Y3eAhUOJt8KHd4DBlsQ6AEwDXoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=kati%20agócs%20damrosch%20symphony&f=false Thank you, KatiAgocs (talk) 01:27, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Reply 19-OCT-2018

  Edit request implemented  

• I believe that the citation needed inline template pertains to a reference for the Tempo article itself, rather than a secondary source on the article. Claims that someone has written something for a publication are usually verified by producing the document from the publication (one or two, if there are several).

Thank you User:Spintendo for your help. Here is a reference to the Tempo article: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/tempo/article/two-recent-concertos-by-george-tsontakis/7428DB430D769B122FF48E90EF1F9288# KatiAgocs (talk) 16:50, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

• The photos are not numbered, so I removed the infobox's photo and kept the article's first (and only) photo, which appears more natural and less intentionally posed than the infobox photo. But I understand this is a question of personal preference, so if you prefer the infobox photo to be used and no one objects, I will restore it. Please advise.  Spintendo  07:18, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Spintendo for removing the extra photo. I'm fine with the photo that you and the community think is best. KatiAgocs (talk)

• Thank you Spintendo for implementing the suggested changes. Respectfully proposing one further edit: The phrase "presented her with" in the penultimate paragraph now sticks out; is there a more neutral alternative to this phrase? Perhaps "named her a recipient of"? Are there any other possible improvements to the article's wording that I might have missed? Please advise. Thank you, KatiAgocs (talk) 13:22, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Removing Unsourced Material and Adding New Citations

I respectfully request the following edits to remove unsourced material from this article, and to add citations to provide new sourcing:

• First sentence: cut the birth date, nationality, and “contemporary classical music” designation, all of which are not listed in the source, so that the sentence now reads:

"Kati Ilona Agócs (born 1975) is a composer and a member of the composition faculty at the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston, Massachusetts.[1]"

• Second sentence: Cut the phrase “From 1998 to 2005” (specific years of study are not listed in the source) so that the sentence now reads: “Agócs attended the Juilliard School in New York where she earned a Master's and Doctoral degrees under the guidance of Milton Babbitt.[2]"
• Third sentence: Insert new source for “She was a composition fellow at the Aspen Music Festival and School”:

https://www.aspendailynews.com/arts_and_entertainment/aspen-music-festival-school-alums-return-to-help-entertain-and/article_a6f655f4-7a68-11e8-b7cd-cb12b3dfa915.html

• Cut the following category and sentence entirely (not possible to source):

“Personal life[edit source] Agócs is married to the American composer Robert Beaser.”

• Cut the following sentence entirely (not possible to source)

She maintains a work studio in Flatrock, Newfoundland."

• Insert the following source for "Boston Modern Orchestra Project recorded and released the 2016 album The Debrecen Passion":

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/agócs-the-debrecen-passion — Preceding unsigned comment added by KatiAgocs (talk • contribs) 20:47, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

• Insert the following new source for “Agócs has written on American music for the journal Tempo[citation needed]”:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/tempo/article/two-recent-concertos-by-george-tsontakis/7428DB430D769B122FF48E90EF1F9288

• Cut the works list entirely (not possible to source every work):

“Principal Works[edit source] · Ambrosiana (Solo piano) 2016 · As Biddeth Thy Tongue (Solo alto saxophone) 2006 · Canzona (Solo guitar) 2001 · Crystallography (Soprano, flute, clarinet, violin, cello, piano, and percussion) 2012 (Text: Christian Bök)[15] · Devotion (Horn, harp, and string quintet) 2014 · Division of Heaven and Earth (Solo piano) 2006 · Every Lover is a Warrior (Solo harp) 2005[16][17] · Hymn (Saxophone quartet) 2005[18] · Immutable Dreams (Flute, clarinet, violin, cello, and piano) 2007 · Northern Lights (Solo harp) 2012 · Piano Trio 2017 · Saint Elizabeth Bells (Cello and cimbalom) 2013 · Supernatural Love (Violin and piano) 2007 · Tantric Variations (String quartet) 2016 · By the Streams of Babylon (Two amplified soprano voices and chamber orchestra) 2009 (Text: Psalm 137 in Latin)[19] · The Debrecen Passion (Twelve female voices and chamber orchestra) 2015 (Text: poems by Szilárd Borbély in Hungarian; Lamentations of Mary in modern Hungarian translation by Ferenc Molnár [fragments]; Ana B’Choach [in Hebrew]; Stabat Mater Specioso [fragments, in Latin]; Thou Art a Vineyard [hymn text in Georgian])[20][21] · Elysium (Chamber Orchestra and Recorded Sound)[16][22] · A Hero's Welcome (Orchestra) 2016 · Perpetual Summer (Orchestra) 2010; Revised 2012 · Requiem Fragments (Chamber orchestra) 2008 · Shenanigan (Orchestra) 2011[23] · Vessel (Three female voices and chamber ensemble) 2011 (Text: e e cummings "i carry your heart with me [i carry it in]"; Jehudah Halevi: The Garden of His Delight [in Hebrew]; Catullus: His Boat [fragments, in Latin])” (End of cut) Thank you, KatiAgocs (talk) 20:30, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Reply 04-NOV-2018

  Edit request partially implemented  

1. Y The lead sentence was revised as requested.

Thank you User:Spintendo for your help. My nationality is Canadian-American (being a citizen of both Canada and the U.S.) Can this also be added to the Infobox? KatiAgocs (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

1. Y The years were omitted from the subject's graduate work.
2. N The claim regarding being a CF at Aspen is already referenced.
3. N The claim regarding the subject's husband was not omitted. The subject herself is the best reference for this type of claim — and no other type of source is necessary.
4. N The claim regarding the subject's workspace was not omitted. This claim is best sourced by the subject herself, as she is best positioned to determine where she works everyday. No other type of source is necessary.
5. Y The source for Debrecen Passion was added, despite not being formatted correctly.

Apologies for the lack of formatting. Perhaps it should be mentioned that I wrote The Debrecen Passion, since that is not stated explicitly? KatiAgocs (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

1. N The source for the Tempo claim was not added mainly because it had the misfortune of being the second incorrectly formatted reference in a row. The ability of the reviewer to assist with edit requests which may have forgotten certain elements of formatting only extends as far as the first omission.

Here is the citation:

I suggest that the following sentence be moved to the "Career" section, since both the article and the book are about music by other composers: "Agócs has written on American music for the journal *Tempo*[*citation

needed <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>*] and also created a critical edition of the *Symphony in A Major* by Leopold Damrosch <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Damrosch>.[14] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kati_Ag%C3%B3cs#cite_note-14>" KatiAgocs (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

1. Y The Principal works section altered to Select principal works by retaining those with references and omitting those without ref's. The proposed edit to delete all the information in that section was too drastic — there ought to be a compromise pathway. Keeping part of the list with referenced items remaining whilst unreferenced items are omitted should allow the article to eat its cake and have it too.  Spintendo  01:58, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you [Spintendo] for linking to the proverb's fascinating history and interpretation KatiAgocs (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Inquiry - Remaining steps to remove banner?

I acknowledge, and regret, my role in problems with this article in the past. Since I learned about paid editing and the associated issues, I have made my best effort to reverse those problems, and I appreciate the assistance of [Spintendo] and [Drmies] in that process. As you can see from this link, the size of the article has been sharply reduced recently, and is now about the size it was in 2012. I have not paid anyone to edit since learning about these issues, and I will not do so again.

At this point, I respectfully propose that, through several rounds of requests, the issues have been pretty well addressed. Am I missing anything? If it's in a reasonably acceptable state, would it be possible to remove the banner? I would like to move on from the article, though if there is anything further I should do to fix it up, I would like to know what it is. Thank you, KatiAgocs (talk) 18:49, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

References

Reply 20-NOV-2018

  Please consult assigning editor  

• Please make your request first of the editor who assigned the template — in this case JJMC89 — in order to inquire from them, as a courtesy, whether or not the template they placed may be removed. You may do so by contacting them on their talk page. In the unlikely event that they do not respond, please reopen this request by altering the {{request edit}} template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes to |ans=no
  Regards,  Spintendo  19:40, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

  Thanks for the ping, Spintendo. Since you've been helping with edit requests, you're in a better position to judge than I am. Please remove it if you think it is no longer warranted. — JJMC89 (T·C) 23:45, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

  Thank you; Spintendo, do you think that you would be able to remove the banner, or are there still outstanding items I should be working on before that can happen? Thank you, KatiAgocs (talk) 00:28, 25 November 2018 (UTC) 22:30, 24 November 2018 (UTC) 21:57, 24 November 2018 (UTC) 20:56, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Looking at the circumstances, the template used here — {{Undisclosed paid}} — covers situations where undisclosed payments are involved in the editing of an article. As the COI editor has been disclosing their involvement with this article since at least early October of this year, this appears to have solved the problem of not disclosing involvement. For this reason I believe that the template may be removed.  Spintendo  20:13, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

American-Canadian versus Canadian-American

Perhaps these two terms are ambiguous, but I understood an American-Canadian to be one who started in the USA then moved to Canada, while a Canadian-American starts in Canada and goes to the USA. If I am correct in that terminology, then the wrong term is used in this article, as Kati Agocs was born and raised in Canada and move to the USA as an adult. 167.220.148.37 (talk) 00:32, 9 June 2022 (UTC)