Talk:Keiki-dō

Requested move 17 November 2024

Keiki-dō → Keiki Province – This move would affect all the Category:Former prefectures of Japan in Korea, as well as that category name.

I think "Provinces" may be more appropriate, but still not sure. I moved all the other Korea prefecture pages from "-dō" to " Prefecture" following the category name, but @robertsky pointed out " Province" may be more appropriate.

"Prefecture" has kind of a loose definition, per Prefecture and Prefectures of Japan. The nature of prefectures in various countries differs; it's not really clear to me how these differ from provinces, esp given that colonial Korea was governed differently from Japan.

Both "prefecture" and "province" seem to be variously attested to for Korean provinces (as well as the use of transliterations of Korean names for Korean places during the colonial period). English terminology for Korean history is notoriously inconsistent.

Reading Prefectures of Japan, it seems like "道" is also used for prefectures, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that it would extend to Korea. Provinces of Japan seems to suggest that Japan itself adopted the prefecture system in the late 19th century, but that doesn't necessarily cover Korea.

However, recent RS on the colonial period seem to use "province" for this period (although these all seem to write from Korea-centric perspectives; using Korean-language terms for concepts during the colonial period).

• [1]
• [2]
• [3]
• [4]

In short, I think there's a WP:COMMONNAME argument to use "Province" instead of "Prefecture". Either of the two is certainly better than the previous "-dō". seefooddiet (talk) 05:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@RachelTensions commented on the contested speedy move at WP:RM; feel free to weigh in here if you'd like. seefooddiet (talk) 05:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

If the intention is for this to result in changes to the other pages, it should be formatted as a multimove request. (Probably the other moves should be undone for the time being under WP:RMUM since they have effectively been objected to now.) On the merits, in contemporary Japan "Prefecture" is used for -dō in the case of Hokkaido, but the Korean regions were never treated as integral parts of the "Japanese homeland", so I would probably avoid using "Prefecture" here. There isn't too much problem with "Province", but if there is no common name in English, I don't see a problem with using -dō as in the current title. The name is already based on the Japanese reading of the region, and "-dō" is also "do" in Korean. Dekimasuよ! 05:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support the mass-move from "dō" to "province". I trust seefooddiet's assessment of the common name in sources, most of which I cannot verify myself. Circuit (administrative division) also covers this term and suggests that we should translate it as "province". Hokkaido seems like an exception, where "dō" was created as a special category of prefecture just to fit this one longstanding use, so I would not use it as evidence that "dō" should be translation as "prefecture" (see Prefectures_of_Japan#Dō).

There's no reason to revert the moves at other pages, since there's no urgency and repeated moving back-and-forth is a waste of time and clutters the logs. If this closes as no-consensus or not moved, we can move them back to the status quo titles. Toadspike [Talk] 12:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)