Talk:Kelvin Kiptum

Aren't they the same?

Under "Achievements: Personal bests", why are 10,000 meters and 10 kilometers listed as two separate categories? Aren't they exactly the same thing? 🤔 Toddcs (talk) 14:53, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Generally, track and road records/personal bests are tracked separately, even over the same distance. I think the exact verbiage is being taken from his world athletics page. I agree it is confusing the way it is currently listed.

https://worldathletics.org/athletes/kenya/kelvin-kiptum-14859609 Noah9 (talk) 16:01, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I added a "Track" subheading for clarity. Noah9 (talk) 16:09, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

No LOL. If you guys don't know anything about track, then don't worry about it. Alexysun (talk) 17:43, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

The 10,000 meters is ran on track (400m). The 10 kilometers is ran on road like the marathon. Alexysun (talk) 17:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Alexysun. The American English convention is "run," rather than "ran." Thanks for your extensive work on this article. Activist (talk) 13:15, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Boldpajero@Alexysun 138.36.77.176 (talk) 16:14, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Format

I made the mistake of trying to fix too many things at once at a page that is getting a lot of well-deserved traffic. I probably made a dozen picayune changes of apostrophe, as Wikipedia conventions don't want "curley quotes" preferring '. Other changes I made were of the sort of dropping the word "already" which was unnecessary, and hyphenating some terms, as well as changing the British spelling of "favourite" to the U.S. spelling of "favorite" No edits I made were of text that was in error, I was just abiding by U.S. and Wikipedia conventions. I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes in this very informative article about an extraordinary competitor. I'll come back when the article isn't so "busy." Activist (talk) 13:12, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Lead

The lead is being edited heavily at present, according to the main article, so I'll put this comment here before editing. The lead needs a reference to the subject's death; it's major world news and he was very young. In addition, the lead has too many details of specific races; such detail should be in the main body. I'll wait a little before making these edits if no-one else comments here. Emmentalist (talk) 07:50, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

PeppaPigIsATaxFraud has added a paragraph in the lead with this diff._{RIP Kelvin Kiptum} Dialmayo (talk) (Contribs) she/her 13:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. I added a sentence about his death, but someone reverted my edit. Someone also deleted the paragraph that PeppaPigIsATaxFraud added.—Finell 01:03, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2024

add in reactions that kelvins father Samson Cheruiyot, has appealed to the government to conduct an investigation, saying " "There are people who came home a while back who were looking for Kiptum but they refused to identify themselves," he told Kenyan news outlet Citizen TV.

"I asked them to provide identification, but they opted to leave. It was a group of four people." Jonesy487 (talk) 23:22, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Aaron Liu (talk) 18:30, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

https://news.sky.com/story/kelvin-kiptum-four-unidentified-people-came-looking-for-marathon-runner-days-before-his-death-athletes-father-says-13070829#:~:text=Devastated%20by%20the%20death%20of,days%20before%20the%20fatal%20collision.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/athletics-2024-kelvin-kiptums-father-makes-worrying-claim-after-marathon-runners-death-in-car-crash-investigation/news-story/9950af24ecfeefe87a91d2e6208fdfe6

https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sports/father-calls-for-investigation-after-shock-claim-after-marathon-champs-death-at-24/news-story/739dd9252fac0102c6eaac5aab6b3e4a Jonesy487 (talk) 20:11, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

 Already done . You can reopen the request by removing the |answered= parameter next time. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:32, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2024 (2)

Please remove the red links that link to his coach. Thank you. 143.44.165.182 (talk) 23:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: per WP:Red link. Aaron Liu (talk) 18:33, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

2023: Second-best performance all time and world marathon record

@SG5536B In reviewing the page history, I can see why my edits may have been confused as 'disruptive edits.' However, I was removing content that seemed sensational ("obliterating the course record") or overtly technical ("negative split" + additional time stamps) – overall unencyclopaedic. Can you clarify how your reverted version (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kelvin_Kiptum&oldid=1206808450#2023:_#2_performance_all_time,_and_world_marathon_record) is better than my edited version (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kelvin_Kiptum&oldid=1206803808#2023:_World_record)? LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 04:58, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi @LeónGonsalvesofGoa, to answer your question, I initially thought the version I restored was more stable and accurate when I noticed you removing more than a thousand bytes worth of content in multiple edits in the article without explaining why in the first place. In the future, I think it would be more helpful if you provide an edit summary for any important edit you make. This is so that we can all understand what your intention is when you make the edits. Anyways, to quote WP:ES, "It is a good practice to provide a meaningful summary for every edit, especially when reverting (undoing) the actions of other editors or deleting existing text; otherwise, people may question your motives for the edit.". Also, thank you for reaching out to me on this matter. Signed, SG5536B (my talk page | my contribs) 09:25, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully my deletions make sense now. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 05:50, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I went back and removed content, each time with an edit summary. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 05:51, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining your edits and for removing the possibly non-encyclopedic content. SG5536B (my talk page | my contribs) 11:36, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

request to add on kiptum's WR time vs Kipchoge's WR side by side comparison LaughMaster34 (talk) 18:01, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Why? What even is a side-by-side comparison of times? What about Marathon world record progression#Men? Aaron Liu (talk) 18:31, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

@Aaron Liu Being charitable to the original requestor, maybe they mean a comparison of 5 km splits to see which portions of the race were faster or slower. --Habst (talk) 13:24, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Anecdotes on the WR and future aspirations

World Athetics shared his own anecdotes about the WR and future aspirations, that were cut short. [1] How do we properly process this for this article? KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 23:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Village geography

"He grew up in Chepsamo village, Chepkorio, a high-altitude (~2,600 m) area in Elgeyo-Marakwet County of Kenya's Rift Valley. It is located some 30 km east of Eldoret, on the southeastern border of the Kaptagat forest, and just near the edge of the meridional Elgeyo (Keiyo) escarpment to the east, which rapidly gives way to the lower Kerio Valley (800–1,200 m). Together with nearby counties of Kenya, the region is known as the birthplace of many renowned Kenyan runners and also as a mecca for foreign runners."

Do we really need to focus this much on the geography of his birth place? That doesn't seem relevant to anything. Just leaving the first sentence there would be fine.

Also, I'm not a runner or anything so maybe this is just common knowledge, but there's no source attached to the last sentence either. Pac-Man PHD (talk) 20:29, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, the more I read this article, the more I feel it's written by one of his supporters. Review the details I removed under 'World Record.' LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 05:49, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

London time

The London marathon time is reported as 16 seconds faster than the world record. It was 16 seconds slower than the world record. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.88.236 (talk) 14:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed. It was correct in the lead but wrong in that particular section. Wyliepedia @ 10:00, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

"Early life" year of birth edit reverted

I reverted the removal of mentioning there is confusion about Kiptum's year of birth in Special:Diff/1210336679, which removed it because there was "hearsay". It was published by a reliable source, and I don't think Wikipedia has any policy against hearsay other than this essay which only says to avoid stating opinions as facts, which isn't done in the current article. Also, we can use editorial discredtion on Wikipedia, understanding it is unlikely that Kiptum finished tenth in the Eldoret Half Marathon at age 13 and had a child with his wife at age ~16-17. With respect, --Habst (talk) 18:49, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I was referring to WP:NOTSCANDAL when I removed that content. The way it is worded now implies hearsay. My initial search of references used the earlier birthday, including mainstream references like the NYT. Are you claiming that they are wrong? LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 04:27, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

@LeónGonsalvesofGoa, thanks for your response.

Reading WP:NOTSCANDAL, it seems like that is about negative statements about an individual, i.e. libelous, privacy-infringing, or reputation-attacking content. I don't think that the "Early life" section as it's written right now could be interpreted as any of those things, nor do I think the fact of a disputed year of birth is negative. The cited reporting isn't negative w.r.t. Kiptum either.

Regarding your last question – that may be the case, see Wikipedia:When sources are wrong. I once emailed the NYT about an incorrect statement in one of their athletics-related articles and they later changed the article, so it happens. It's quite common for East African runners to not know their actual date of birth for certain; see for example Matt Fitzgerald. "How old is Haile Gebrselassie?". ESPN.

Per the above essay, I was careful not to explicitly say that one year is wrong or the other is correct – I'm perfectly fine with stating his "official" date of birth in the lede and in categories such as Category:1999 births, and just mentioning that there's a contradiction briefly in the early life section. I think that's an appropriate compromise for a situation like this. --Habst (talk) 21:11, 5 March 2024 (UTC)