Talk:Kenelm Lee Guinness

References

I tagged the article because Find a Grave is not only improperly used as a reference it is the "first" reference. Otr500 (talk) 08:16, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

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Nationality and country of birth

I've noticed that in race results from after WW1, he is listed as being Irish. There is no mention AT ALL in this article about him being Irish, or even having done anything there.

This article suggests he was born in "England", as does this article I found in (coincidentally) the Irish times: [1]. That article makes no mention of him being Irish at any point either. However several sources suggest he was actualy born in Dublin (at the time of course Ireland was part of the UK): the find-a-grave website in the sources of this article:[2], Motorsport magazine: [3], DriverDB: [4]. The sources also appear to differ on whether he was British or Irish. I'll add to that David Hodges' "The French Grand Prix" lists him as British (for all years).

Does anyone else have anything more concrete? A7V2 (talk) 07:39, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

There was a lot of damage done here Special:Contributions/LadyGuinness. Also there are a fair few editors on WP who are pushing a biased agenda around the nationality of Anglo-Irish people Andy Dingley (talk) 09:00, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Well as far as I know, at the time of his birth Dublin lay in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. His nationality therefore would have been British. I'm not certain anyone could have competed under an Irish nationality in that period. And it seems that his racing career had ended by the time the Republic of Ireland came to exist. So his sportive nationality should have been British.Tvx1 01:03, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

(reply to both) Thanks for the input. I also made a change to the article as there was no Tourist Trophy in 1913... I guess my history knowledge wasn't up to scratch, I thought Irish independence was in 1919. Is it not possible that he should be listed as from Irish Free State from 1921 onwards? Or was he always "British"? A7V2 (talk) 02:13, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

It is possible, but not merely because he was born in Dublin. For that we need a source that he actually obtained Irish citizenship upon Ireland's independence. We can't just assume he did, especially since he was living in London at that time.Tvx1 11:34, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Okay that makes sense. I'll change flags in the race articles but of course if someone did have evidence of him taking Irish nationality it could be changed then. Thanks for the help. A7V2 (talk) 03:33, 30 June 2019 (UTC)