Talk:Kenilworth Castle/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   Can you explain or link this: collar and truss-brace design? Since the length of the siege in 1266 is the longest in English history, it would be nice to know exactly how long that was without going to the link. How did Henry, Earl of Lancaster get the castle? Did Isabella or Mortimer give it to him?

   Not sure if I can help with the braces (not at the moment anyway), but as far as the siege is concerned I've clarified in the lead and main body of the article how long it was. It's an unusual situation as I'm using an older version of the Morris book, but the basic facts such as the length of the siege won't have changed. Hchc2009 could probably update the reference for consistency, but since I'd found my copy of the book I thought I'd lend a hand.

   On the issue of Henry, Earl of Lancaster, I thought this was addressed by the passage "His estates, including Kenilworth, were confiscated by the crown.[68] Edward and his wife, Isabella of France spent Christmas 1323 at Kenilworth, amidst major celebrations.[70] In 1326, however, Edward was deposed by an alliance of Isabella and her lover, Roger Mortimer. Edward was eventually captured by Isabella's forces and the custody of the king was assigned to Henry, Earl of Lancaster, who had backed Isabella's invasion.[71] Henry, regaining most of the Lancaster lands, was made constable of Kenilworth and Edward was transported there in late 1326". Taken in the context of the paragraph it's clear IMO that he regained possession as a result of royal favour. As the Crown owned his property, including Kenilworth, it could only have been the Crown that gave it back. Nev1 (talk) 23:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

   Thanks for clarifiying the siege. The fact that he became constable implies that he did not regain ownership.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

   I've given some links to the collar and truss-brace design, and added a note giving a link to a picture of a possible equivalent structure. See if that paints a better picture; if not, I could probably pull together a stub architectural term page. As you've suggested, I've fished out the Morris 2010 equivalents to keep the editions consistent. Thanks! Hchc2009 (talk) 14:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

   Still would like to know when the Crown regranted the castle back to Henry. Appointing him constable implies that they retained still it then.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 15:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

   Just about to update; the estates were "formally restored" in 1327. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:02, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

   I figured as much, but I can't square that with his appointment by the Crown as Constable of the castle. Unless I'm misunderstanding something they could appoint a man Constable of his own castle.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:29, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

   I've had another go at clarifying the text in the article. But the sequence I'm trying to convey is: first the castle belonged to the Lancaster earls, but they were confiscated, being owned by the Crown instead - back to being a "royal castle". 1326, Edward is overthrown; like other major nobles who sided with Isabella, there is much reoccupying of former lands - Henry of Lancaster grabs his family's estates back, but hasn't got legal title yet. Isabella appoints him constable of Kenilworth so he can officially guard Edward on her behalf. 1327, Henry formally gets the ownership of Kenilworth back in law. You've got a similar sequence with Goodrich and some others in 1326, where the "proper" owner takes occupancy before the legal titles are confirmed. So when Henry is being appointed constable, the castle is still legally the Crown's, but everyone would have known that Henry was about to get it back fully as a close supporter of Isabella. Isabella carries on using the castle as a "royal castle" anyway until her own fall from power in 1330, but I haven't seen anything suggesting she had any particular right to do so, except for the fact that Henry owned his lands and title on her grace and favour as the ruling regent of the Crown.Hchc2009 (talk) 18:00, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

   OK, good enough.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:22, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

   Cheers! Hchc2009 (talk) 18:28, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

• Sturmvogel, I'm travelling this week and only able to edit slowly from my mobile device - I'll make the necessary edits you've highlighted on 2nd Nov when I get back. Many thabks in advance for the review! Hchc2009 (talk) 19:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

That's fine; I'm not really in a hurry.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:34, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Back in an area with a broad-band connection again! Changes made as per above. Hchc2009 (talk) 14:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations on this beautiful article! Really amazing stuff! Buchraeumer (talk) 10:31, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Very many thanks to everyone who worked on it! It is a lovely castle to cover in an article. Hchc2009 (talk) 20:54, 2 November 2010 (UTC)