Talk:Kenneth McClintock

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The first version of Kenneth McClintock's biography was reproduced will the help of the COPA organization. A copy of the original version can be found at:

http://www.copa.qc.ca/Anglais/Quisommesang/Structure/Presidence/KMcClintock/biokmcang.html

Permission was granted by officials of this organization.

The biography is pretty accurate until year 2000. A note on the recent involvements has been added at the end of the article and future improvements will be slowly incorporated into the running version User: torresan

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Thank you for your interest in Puerto Rican politics articles. This article now officially follows wikipeadia standards. User: Coburnpharr04

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Thanks for the hyperlinked version of this biography. Best Regards, User: torresan

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Factual corrections have been made to recent changes to the biography of this highly controversial Puerto Rico politician. For example, McClintock has not (yet) been expelled from his party, only De Castro-Font, and that's a well-known fact. Another example: he was elected, not only by the entire PDP delegation, but by 14 other NPP senators, and that's a fact (check www.senadoela.pr). Regarding his alleged lack of a political future, while supporters of Rossello certainly think/wish so, he's been doing pretty well in scientific and unscientific polls measuring approval ratings as future Resident Commissioner candidates. Whoever made the previous, false changes should avoid Seigenthalerizing this bio and putting in doubt the credibility of the excellent work many have put into providing great information on Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans in this and other wikipedia pages.

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Someone insists on imposing their subjective views as facts regarding this controversial politician. Now he has described as having been "discipled", which I guess means "disciplined" and "unaffiliated" from his party, which is totally false since his party has only expelled Sen. De Castro-Font. These false notations affect the credibility of this medium.

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McClintock's early life info has been amended to include his birthday, based on a Primera Hora newspaper article on Jan. 2, 2006 which makes note of the fact that he and Speaker José Aponte were born on the same day, one year apart, which is a remarkable coincidence.

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A reference has been included regarding McClintock's first statement this past week that he and others may sue the NPP leadership to assure their right to file for the 2008 primary. In a Radio Isla interview, he sure sounded like he's mulling a run for Congress, insted of relection to the Senate.

Clearification Note

1. Promotional sites within an article are "not" permitted in Wikipedia. This is considered "SPAM" by our policy.
2. Wikipedia is not a political forum. Statements which may led into a political debate within the article are "not" allowed. Wikipedia is about verificaion. Any information added to the article, be it for or against the articles subject "must" have a verifiable source posted or it will be deleted.
3. Personal statements within the article are considered "POV" (Point of View) and violate Wikipedias NPOV policy, therefore they will be deleted. Personal statements are to be made in the articles "Talk page" when necessary. However, I must remind all those interested that said statements should be in a "civil" manner without personal attacks. Those who participate in the "talk pages" should always sign with ~~~~ at the end of their comments.

This article, such as all articles, must be kept to the high standards required by Wikipedia and not to anybody's personal believes, may they be political or otherwise. Tony the Marine 19:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

As I was gathering data on Sen. MacClintock for my son's summer assignment essay, I noticed that a lot of valuable information on his past had been deleted some time ago and I've reinstated it. While some people may oppose the fact that he stood up to and stopped Pedro Rosello's steamroller, that's no reason to eliminate objective facts about the life of one of Puerto Rico's most prominent leaders today. ____________________

Even though I'm one of Rossello's cousins, I'm a little bemused by some of the bias in the article. It could use some cleaning up.

Bias?

There are certain statements in this bio which could be considered biased against the Senator but I think if anyone has demonstrated the capacity to put up with unfair criticism in Puerto Rican politics, it is him!Pr4ever 03:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Bad edits reverted

User:Prwolverine has ben doing POV, WP:OR, un-sourced changes to this article. I have reverted to the state previous to his edits. While I dodn't necessarily endorse the version I reverted to, his edits where definitely not good. I am posting welcomes etc as it seems like a new user. Thanks!--Cerejota 07:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

New Photos

I've observed several contributors switching OLD photos of McClintock when he was actually Senate President. As a matter of fact, he made a dramatic image change in his hairstyle as he took office as Sec. of State (see his profilre photo on his Facebook page for example). Rather than keep switching old photos, if someone gets hold of a NEW photo of him (he now looks 10 years younger!), that's the one this page needs.

Also, if someone gets a hold of a good photo of his new oil portrait in the Hall of Senate Presidents (Galería de los Presidentes), that, too, should appear somewhere in this page, although not in the infobox. Pr4ever (talk) 21:06, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

• I agree with my old friend Pr4ever 100%. I changed the photo in the infobox for one which I believed was sharper and crispier (I thought that in the other one he looked as if he was crying), but I'll along with one with the new change in his hairstyle (smile). Tony the Marine (talk) 23:46, 7 February 2009 (UTC) (P.S. I'll see if I can get a photo of his new oil portrait in the Hall of Senate Presidents.)

Infobox

First, I strongly suggest that inserrted material which has stood the test of time and multiple editors not be removed without ample discussion.

Having said that, in a jurisdiction in which the overriding issue is the fesolution of its political status problem, being the founder and fitrst president of an organization that deals with that precise issue, which has stood the test of time over 30 years, which has produced the mainstream governmental leaders (a Governor, A Secretary of State, two members of Congress, a Senate President, etc) and which, in fact, is holding elections this weekend, is an acci=omplishment worthy of being noted in an infobox. There are no set rules for p[articular infoboxes. In this case, the infobox format, the Congressional one, is appropriately used for someone who is not even a member of Congress, because it is most suitable to convey this highly notable individual's major accomplishments.

Once again, let's talk before we strike material that has stood the test of time and multiple editors.Pr4ever (talk) 11:13, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

• My response to this is found at [1]. Mercy11 (talk) 22:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

The use of the seal of the office of Secretary of State, as well as of the Governor has been discussed extensively among editors participating in the Puerto Rico and it has been considered appropriate to allow its use, which is offensive to no one, does not explicitly violate any rule and allows users, particularly students, to find a photo, a seal and the bio in one same article. Permission has been granted for its use. We're here for users' sake and ease of use, not for our own. Pr4ever (talk) 02:29, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Memorial Day ceremonies

Memorial Day/Veterans Days ceremonies were apparently big in McClintock's priorities. He repeatedly would state his status as the son of a "Greatest Generation" veteran. He invited keynote speakers, such as then-Congressman Kendrick Meeks to speak, and undoubtedly Sen. Clinton's address, with former President Clinton in attendance, must have been a highlight of his term as president of the Senate and merits to be mentioned. I have reinserted the paragraph that had been removed, editing out the name of the Wikipedian who was honored at the 2008 event, McClintock's last.

• Well done and understandable. You have always been a friend to my father. The sad thing is that it goes in tune with the wishes of those who have done everything possible to eliminate the name or the mention of my father from Wikipedia as if he were a plague or something. It sort of reminds me of when a government fiqure falls in disgrace and everything is done to erase his/her exsistence from the face of this earth with the only difference being that the only thing that my father has done is to write about the positive contributions which his people have made and his only sin is to have helped others. He did not ask to be recognized for his work, but it happened. I suppose that there some people out there that can not stand it when others are recognized for their accomplishments. Antonio Martin (talk) 02:22, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
  • Well said. Whether your father's name appears in this article or not, his work and the "homenaje" he received when he sat with now Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and former President Clinton on the same podium (and I believe I saw pictures of him with them somewhere in Wikipedia in what appeared to be an office, perhaps McClintock's) will not be taken away by anyone. How many Marines who didn't achieve the rank of general can claim that same honor? I'm glad your father is doing better and is back contributing to Wikipedia.Pr4ever (talk) 10:50, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

References

McClintock's demographics

McClintock provides details of his own demographics in a note published on July 5, 2011 on his Facebook page, which I retrieved on July 8, 2011, can be found at:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150235468011338

His self-description is self-explanatory and evidences that he is a direct descendant of Irish ancestors (via Texas, City, Texas) and Spanish ancestors (via Ponce, Puerto Rico). A living public figure's contemporary autobiographical writings published and accessible to the public are as good a source we can have! Pr4ever (talk) 11:09, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Travel as Secretary of State

While many other PR Secretaries of State, incredibly, rarely traveled, McClintock travels extensively, both within the US (as he did as a senator and Senate President) and abroad. The press tried to make an issue of his travel expenses (thus the encyclopaedic notability of data on his travel) but he was barely criticized once his well-known frugality was reflected in the ridiculously low expenses incurred. As expressed in other parts of the article, he has been a fierce promoter of trade and of the proposed Caribbean Energy Grid, which obviously requires extensive travel. Pr4ever (talk) 05:16, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Pr4ever, with all respect for your admiration for McClintock's impressive record but fact is the article would be more encyclopedic if this section was not included (and, I would even say removing also the one about his hosting of foreign dignitaries). I agree with the removing editor that foreign travel is no longer unique, not in this day of supersonic jets, and certianly not unique especially for elected officials. Your basis for the addition is the comparison between McClintock and other Sec's of State. However, that does not add to the value of the article, for one, because it is also presented in a vacuum. Even if it did add value becuase it was unique - which again, it is not - you would have to start by (1) Stating in the article, your basis for adding such information (as you did in this discussion board) and (2) Providing citations for all of McClintock's alleged travels and equal (unbiased) citations for the -presumably- limited amount of travel of the others. In the long run what you would end up with is probably a new section covering his fierce promotion of trade and the Caribbean Grid, his opponents's criticism of his alleged frugality, and similar related subject. In other words, to make the information releveant you have to reflect that it is unique. But only listing -in a vacuum- places that he has traveled to is IMO rather native (no offense intended). You also have to show that it is significant and significant in today's context. That is, extensive travel abroad in and of itself does not prove anthing. Maybe that is just McClintock's modus operandi, how he personally feels he can best serve Puerto Rico. Maybe other SOS's performed brilliantly well as well back then without the extrensive travel McClintock is incurring in. Maybe his constituency demands and expects this of him in this day and age, but did not of the previous SOS's becuase the time is now ripe for that sort of thing but wasn't in the past. There could be an endless number of reasosn why it was not -allegedly- done so frequently in the past, but it is done by him today. Maybe they are just equally justified. If you presented the reasons why it is "incredibly" (as you put it) unique and significant, rather than just listing the places he has traveled to, then I think the reader will stand a better chance at appreciating its value and importance in the article. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 14:01, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Good observations. Will work on sourced paragraph re contrast regarding limited travel of predecessors (Bonilla, Izquierdo and Mercado) and have already begun sourcing his travels with a link from Taiwan's President's office. Thanks. Pr4ever (talk) 04:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Sourced most of countries visited before calling it a night (almost midnight on the West Coast!)-a lot of work yet to be done as per Mercy's suggestions. Pr4ever (talk) 06:01, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Civil status

As per footnote 4, the only reference I've found is to a joint separation announcement in Feb. '11. No reference to divorce up to now. Pr4ever (talk) 02:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

New Party for Progress (NPP)

Several of the top leaders of Puerto Rico's governing party (NPP) and its government, including Gov. Luis Fortuño, the party president, and Secretary of State Kenneth McClintock, the party's chief spokesperson on the U.S. mainland, translate "Partido Nuevo Progresista" as "New Party for Progress", rather than "New Progressive Party". They have a point because in 1967 (year of the nationally bipartisan NPP's foundation by a Republican leader) Spanish, "progresista" referred to being in favor of "progress", while the English word "progressive" in 2012 is almost synonimous to "liberal". This, New Party for Progress is a more accurate translation of "Partido Nuevo Progresista", since the NPP is a party that includes both Republican conservatives, such as Fortuño, as well as Democratic moderates, such as McClintock and Congressman Pedro Pierluisi.

References

Puffery and other tags

This article could benefit from a good cleaning. Weasel words, peacock terms, and all-around puffery are present that distract from the facts about the subject. A good cleaning would give this article a more credible and encyclopedic tone. I have tagged some of the more obvious problem areas/words/phrases. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 18:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.

Travels as Secretary of State

I removed the tags regarding his travels as Secretary of State of Puerto Rico as that position is similar to that of a foreign affairs minister and listing them is relevant. The article still needs a lot of cleanup though. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 06:16, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Sub-articles

It has been suggested that sub-articles be created in order to shorten the main article. However, doing so would make it more difficult for WP's ultimate users to retrieve information on this biographical subject. In 42 years in politics (if it's true he began at the age of 13), the subject has held posts or achieved goals, any one of which would merit a separate article (legislative career, Senate presidency, Sec. of State, commissioning presidential statues, including a rare public statue of FDR in a wheelchair, CSG chairmanship, COPA presidency, promoting the Caribbean Energy Grid, etc) so it's understandable that the article is unusually long. Were it not for WP, where else could a researcher find such a complete compilation on the subject? Isn't that the void that WP fills? I will continue summarizing and editing on a continuing basis, trying to address some of the issues raised. Pr4ever (talk) 00:15, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

• I agree with User:Pr4ever, the issue should not be about making the article shorter. McClinktock has lead an interesting life which I am sure those who read his article would appreciate. I believe that User:Pr4ever will look into the other issues which are noted by the "tags" and that he will take care of them, because to tell you all the truth, I always find that those damn "tags" not only make the article ugly to view, but they also belittle the reliability of Wikipedia. User:Pr4ever you have my full support. Tony the Marine (talk) 04:28, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you both, furthermore, the article is not so long as to require splitting per WP:SPLIT. Therefore, I would like to remove the tag. Op47 (talk) 21:51, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

One of four longest-serving

McClintock is one of the four longest serving Secretaries of State of Puerto Rico. The longest-serving, of course, was Roberto Sánchez Vilella from 1952 to 1964, when he was elected Governor. Norma Burgos served part of Governor Rosselló's first term and almost three years of his second term, making her the second longest-serving. Gen. Fernando Chardón serrved all of Gov. Ferré's term and McClintock all of Fortuño's term. Thus, they both tie as the third longest-serving (although it is believed that McClintock and Fortuño were sworn in several hours before thev public ceremony, which would secure McClintock the third place) Secretary of State.Pr4ever (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Birth name, unsourced

According to the bio, his full name is Kenneth Davison McClintock-Hernández, instead of Kenneth Davison McClintock. There are no sources that proves such claims, and if he was born in London were Spanish naming customs are not used, it is unlikely that his "birth" last name could be McClintock-Hernández, despite there is the chance that he could had changed his name afterwards.190.166.6.201 (talk) 03:36, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, he was born in London but his mother was Puerto Rican. Long story short, McClintock calls himself "Kenneth Davison McClintock Hernández" as it's common in Puerto Rico to do so (using both the paternal and maternal surname). The only qualitative proof that you could get is either his birth certificate or his American passport and I doubt anyone will provide such document. However, we do have [2] from the Senate of Puerto Rico, which states his full name as McClintock Hernández at the very top of the document. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 06:26, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

His inaugural speech as President of the Senate also refers to him as McClintock Hernández. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 06:35, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

By the way, to complicate this even more, McClintock might not even have a birth certificate from England, and might have not even been registered in their civil registry (the General Register Office for England and Wales). You see, McClintock's father was an American citizen serving abroad in England while in the Air Force when McClintock was born. Neither parents were British citizens. When it comes to Puerto Rican law, either parent could have registered McClintock in Puerto Rico's civil registry (Spanish: Registro Demográfico) even though McClintock was not born in Puerto Rico as both parents were American citizens and at least one of them had resided in Puerto Rico. So, in short, unless we have a copy of his passport or birth certificate, our best bet would be to state his name as McClintock Hernández since we do not have any other evidence to support the contrary but we do have evidence that supports both surnames. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 16:27, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Lieutenant Governor

Questions have been raised as to whether the subject of this article, his predecessors and successor are actually the Lieutenant Governor. As in Arizona, Oregon and Utah, the Secretary of State serves simultaneously as Lt. Gov. A good source is the following: http://democraticltgovernors.org/ltgovernors/puerto+rico-kenneth-mcclintock Pr4ever (talk) 00:08, 21 October 2013 (UTC)