Talk:Kenny Vance

December 2016

I'd like to get input from an uninvolved editor on this page's content.

On December 9th, a (new) user registered as "Amymichelle229" made a large-scale text replacement on this page. The edit summary was "users enter material that was untrue, corrected with the assistance of Kenny Vance himself". User:bonadea left a conflict-of-interest notice on User Talk:Amymichelle229. In response the user claimed that he/she "just took his biography from him and posted it. I'm a website manager, I don't really care about him."

My feeling was, and is, that the article isn't a very good one. I said as much on User Talk:Amymichelle229. I think my first message was a little bit too censorious, so I tried to tone it down afterwards. My point, however, stands: neither "the assistance of Kenny Vance himself" nor "just took his biography from him and posted it" sounds like a reliable source. It doesn't do Wikipedia any good to replace a substandard article with another substandard article.

Since then the same edits have been made by two other anonymous users: 2602:304:CEAE:8BB0:28AA:639D:DE1E:66CA and the IP address 69.75.101.130. The latter address subsequently used the User Talk:Amymichelle229 page to say that "Kenny is willing to take police action against you". Among other things, this level of excitement makes me feel skeptical about the claim that "I'm a website manager, I don't really care about him."

I have no connection with Kenny Vance. I don't take the threats seriously. I would, however, welcome any ideas from someone who hasn't been part of this as to how the article could be improved. The user(s) in question seem to feel passionately about the subject. I hope that they can be persuaded to make a more judicious and better-referenced series of edits.

NewEnglandYankee (talk) 20:39, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

The user has denied having said "I don't really care about him". Here is the diff: [1]

It would help if User:Amymichelle229 could be a bit more specific about which part of the content is considered untrue. There is certainly a lot of unsourced content in the article, but that is true to an even greater extent of the changed version. It is clear that a lot of text is removed in the Amymichelle229/IP version, and I can also see that some info is changed (without any reference to sources), but it's always difficult and time consuming to try to work out exactly what has been changed in a major edit that changes multiple sections at once in an article.

I do agree that the current article is not great, but nor is the revised version - to some extent, the article currently looks like a fan page for the artist, with some peacock terms and rather essay like writing, and it badly needs more references. But the solution to that is not to remove the few existing refs and add more essay like text; if there are factual errors in the text those should obviously be removed, but since there is a conflict of interest involved (in that Amymichelle229 is Vance's webmaster and clearly represents his interests) it would be best if any such errors could be pointed out on this talk page, especially given this kind of misconception of how Wikipedia works and why we need to have sources for everything. It would not be a problem for me if a lot of the current unsourced text was removed, especially if sources can't be found. As somebody who is only rather vaguely acquainted with Vance's music, I don't think it is a very useful article, it's bogged down in detail which makes it hard to sift through the information and learn anything about the person or his work. --bonadea contributions talk 16:13, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

100% agree. I think there's a strong case that the best thing would be to strip the existing article down to the bedrock, leaving only what's cited or manifestly verifiable. NewEnglandYankee (talk) 16:20, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

I have restored revision 661927240 dated 00:59, May 12, 2015, to remove copyright violations from Billboard Magazine. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 02:22, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 02:21, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Filmography - as actor

The list of acting roles containes several more entries than shown in IMDB - are there sourcres for the others ? -- Beardo (talk) 00:47, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

COI edit requests

Hi! I'm a COI editor, posting on behalf of Kenny Vance with some edit requests.

Lead

•  Partly done In the infobox, consider adding "Musical director for Saturday Night Live" and "Music supervisor for Eddie and the Cruisers and Animal House" in the "Known for" parameter.
• Update "music supervising" to "music supervising and producing" per the article body updates below.

Early career

•  Done Add after "Vance grew up hanging around the famous Brill Building, the Tin Pan Alley song machine, and started his first vocal group, the Harbor Lites, at 15.":

An early single, "Is That Too Much To Ask", experienced local popularity due to radio promotion by disc jockey Cousin Brucie.

•  Done Add a ref for "He then formed another group and auditioned for Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, who signed them to United Artists Records, and named the group Jay and the Americans.":

Jay and the Americans

•  Done Add after "Jay and the Americans released fifteen albums, and their first hit was "She Cried", which was released in 1962.":

The group's musical style evoked nostalgia for 1950s rock and roll and doo wop.

•  Done Update

The group was the opening act for not only The Beatles' first US performance, but also for The Rolling Stones' first US performance.

to

The group was the opening act for not only The Beatles' first US performance, in Washington, D.C., but also for the Rolling Stones at Carnegie Hall, the final stop on the Rolling Stones' tour.

• Update

They had many other hit singles in the 60s, and started their own publishing and production company, JATA Enterprises.

to

They had many other hit singles and an album, Capture the Moment, in the 60s, blending doo wop harmonies with contemporary sounds. They also started their own publishing and production company, JATA Enterprises.

• Update

Their last release was in 1971 and the group broke up in 1973.

to

In 1969, they self-produced the album Sands of Time, featuring songs originated by the Drifters ("This Magic Moment") and the Ronettes ("Walkin' in the Rain"). Both songs hit the Top 40 singles chart. Their last release was in 1971, and the group broke up in 1974.

•  Done Add to end of section:

In 2017, "Come a Little Bit Closer", a hit for Jay and the Americans in 1964, was featured in the soundtrack for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. The soundtrack album went gold in the U.S. and sold more than 2.5 million copies worldwide.

Steely Dan

•  Done Update

In 1967, the songwriting duo of Walter Becker and Donald Fagen came to the Brill Building to sell their songs, and ended up knocking on Vance's door. Vance liked what he heard, and offered to manage them. The duo arranged horn and string sections for Jay and the Americans and toured with them as bassist and keyboardist, eventually recording demos and masters with Vance in 1969.

to

In 1967, the songwriting duo of Walter Becker and Donald Fagen came to the Brill Building to sell their songs, and ended up knocking on Vance's door. Vance liked what he heard, and offered to manage and produce them. The duo arranged horn and string sections for Jay and the Americans recordings and toured with them as bassist and keyboardist. Vance produced the soundtrack album for the movie You've Got to Walk It Like You Talk It or You'll Lose That Beat for Becker and Fagen in 1971.

•  Done Add to end of section:

In Steely Dan FAQ: All That's Left to Know About This Elusive Band, Anthony Robustelli wrote, "For all intents and purposes, Vance should be credited as the man who discovered the core of Steely Dan."

Film and television

•  Done Update

After this, Vance began doing session work, producing, and writing music for movies.

to

After this, Vance began doing session work and producing, including albums by Toni Basil, Danny O'Keefe (American Roulette), and Diane Keaton. He released a solo album, Vance 32, on Atlantic Records in 1975.

(It might also make sense to update the section title to "Producing, film, and television".)

•  Done Update

the Eddie and the Cruisers soundtrack album sold triple Platinum.

to

the soundtrack album of Eddie and the Cruisers, initially a flop as a movie, went triple platinum when the movie became a surprise cult hit.

•  Done Add immediately after the above:

Vance also produced and commissioned the soundtrack for The Warriors, curating a diverse lineup of artists including Arnold McCuller, Barry De Vorzon, and backup vocals from a then-unknown Luther Vandross.

•  Done Update

became the program's musical director in 1980–1981.

to

became the program's musical director in 1980–1981, booking the show's musical acts.

•  Done Add to end of section:

In addition to his appearance in American Hot Wax, Vance has also played bit parts in films including Eddie and the Cruisers, Billy Bathgate, and Hurlyburly. He also appeared in six Woody Allen films.

1990s-on

•  Done Update

Since then the group has released five more albums, "Lover's Island", Countdown to Love", "Dancing and Romancing", "Oceans of Time", and their holiday album, "Mr. Santa".

to

Since then the group has released eight more albums, including "Lovers Island", Countdown to Love", "Dancing and Romancing", "Oceans of Time", and their holiday album, "Mr. Santa".

•  Done Add before "Vance did not perform from 2014 to 2017 for health reasons.":

Vance was inducted into the Vocal Group Hall of Fame as part of Jay and the Americans in 2002, and into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame in 2008. In 2012, Hurricane Sandy destroyed Vance's oceanfront home of 38 years in Rockaway Beach, Queens.

•  Done Add after "Vance did not perform from 2014 to 2017 for health reasons.":

Kenny Vance and the Planotones released a new album, "For Your Love", in 2020. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Vance reunited with members of the original Planotones to record "Brave Companions", a song he wrote in tribute first responders, with proceeds donated to the First Responders Children's Foundation. He also directed a documentary, Heart & Soul, about music performers of the doo wop era. Doc NYC selected the film for its "Only In New York" program.

Discography

•  Done Add to the top of the section:
  See also: Jay and the Americans § Discography
•  Done Add

• 2020: For Your Love

Reception

 Done New section:

Vance has received recognition for his role in the history of doo wop and music. Dion DiMucci told Elmore Magazine in 2008, "Kenny Vance...sings like there's a 19-year-old angel inside of him. ... Kenny Vance expresses the heart and soul of doo wop." In 2009, Brooklyn Paper called Vance the "Dylan of Doo-Wop". Radio disc jockey Jerry Blavat said in 2011 that Vance has "the ability to take a song, which was a hit in the '50s or early '60s and with his style make it fashionable for a new audience that hears it in a different way."

Vance is in the Vocal Group Hall of Fame as part of Jay and the Americans and in the Long Island Music Hall of Fame.

Thank you for your time/feedback! Mary Gaulke (talk) 12:45, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

References

Thank you for making your suggestions so clearly and properly - something which we see all too rarely on this site. I have taken them on board at this point in good faith - they seem to me to be well referenced - although other editors may well wish to edit them a little more for tone, significance, etc. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:28, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your help (and the kind words)! One more question if you have a moment – do you think {{More footnotes}} is still necessary at the top of the article? This flag has been up almost seven years, and the inline citations have improved quite a bit since then. Thanks again! Mary Gaulke (talk) 19:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

@Ghmyrtle: Hi! Pinging you in case you have a chance to take a look at my question above. Thank you. Mary Gaulke (talk) 21:17, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me - I've now removed the tags. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:24, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks very much! Mary Gaulke (talk) 14:18, 17 August 2022 (UTC)