Talk:Kenshō

Seeing one's nature?

This is how it is translated in Jack Maguire's Essential Buddhism. Agree/disagree? 1000Faces, Revision as of 01:05, 19 March 2007

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A notification response has been posted on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Kensho about the disruptive editing of User Joshua Jonathan. Suchawato Mare

Order of Buddhist Contemplatives

Is the OBC still part of the Soto-su? Or is it an independent organisation?

• Seikai Luebke, Why Are Roshi Jiyu Kennett’s Disciples So Reclusive?:

Jiyu Kennett changed the name of her newly founded order from Zen Mission Society to Reformed Soto Zen Church, and then to Order of Buddhist Contemplatives (OBC)—the last change being for the explicit purpose of removing the word Zen from the name, thus distancing herself from the rest of the Zen community in America, for which she did not have a high regard.

• Kyogen Carlson sensei, In Memoriam, Houn Jiyu Kennett Roshi:

Kennett Roshi developed a deep distrust of the Japanese Sotoshu based on the extremely difficult time she had there, particularly after her own teacher died. Over the years the Abbey became more insular and isolated from other lineages in this country, which in many opinions, including mine, led to an unhealthy internal environment conducive to abuses.

• Order of Buddhist Contemplatives, About Us (emphasis mine, except for "Wider Buddhist Connections"):

Established as a monastic order in 1983, The Order of Buddhist Contemplatives is an outgrowth of the previous Zen Mission Society [...] It endeavours to assure that the teachings and practice offered by its licensed priests and lay ministers remain true to the Dharma transmitted by its founder
Wider Buddhist Connections
The Order maintains connections with our Dharma relatives in Malaysia and Japan. It does not have formal administrative links in these countries and functions independently in regard to its finances and religious affairs. In Europe we maintain cooperative associations with other Buddhist organizations through the European Buddhist Union, the Network of Buddhist Organisations (UK) and many locally-made connections. The Order is also a member of the World Fellowship of Buddhists.

Apparantly not. In that case, Jiyu-Kennett's ideas do not belong under the header of Soto, but under a separate header. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:52, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

That seems fair to me. If her organizations are not part of a Soto organization, then I would say that her views belong in the section concerning her account of her experience, but not as the view of any other organization. Looking at a couple of references last night, I saw that kensho and satori are often treated as synonyms, but kensho tends more to be used to refer to 'moments' of insight, whereas satori is for the totality of an enlightenment experience. That makes Jiyu-Kennett's use of 'kensho' to refer to the entire process less representative of the general use of the term, according to the MacMillian Encyclopedia of Buddhism and the Shambhala Dictionary of Buddhism and Zen. --Spasemunki (talk) 23:19, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Dogen, Keizan, and "mystical experiences"

The section on Kenshō#Classical accounts contains info on "mystical experiences" which Dogen and Keizan had. This is off-topic; this article is on kensho, not on miraculous events and auspicious signs. Faure, Williams, and Bodiford, the only sources that can be verified, do not use the term "mystical experience" to describe these events; for Dogen, Bodiford speaks of "miraculous experiences" (p.32), while Faure speaks about "auspicious signs" (p.92). Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:16, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for checking the sources. JimRenge (talk) 10:02, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

"Talk:Kensh?" listed at Redirects for discussion

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