Talk:Kenya Finance Bill protests

Article expansion

Hello dear interested editors, You are highly welcomed to help contribute to the expansion of this article. This is ongoing protests in Kenya. You can find sources by merely typing in "Protests in Kenya" on the search engine. Welcome. Wår (talk) 23:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I keep suggesting edits and you keep undoing them without any explanation, is there a reason you want to imply that the bill was `reportedly` passed. The Appropriations Bill and Finance Bill are different and a court ruling declared it illegal including Finance Bill 2023 too. Stephentelian (talk) 09:15, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

All the current contents on the Wikipedia:Lead are well sourced. Adding a new information needs multiple Wikipedia:Reliable sources to establish them. So far, you haven't provided any supportive source(s). Don't add your Wikipedia:POV. Please, I encourage you to be bold enough to add a new topic to discuss this separately.

Cheers. Wår (talk) 09:22, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

The reason why i am interested in the Wikipedia:Lead is, the term `reportedly` is misleading, its also factually wrong that the storming happened on 28th, it happened on 25th, which is what i clearly want to highlight, that is not my opinion that is the truth Stephentelian (talk) 09:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

This event is still ongoing and the biggest issue is misinformation on social media sites. I am not a random editor, i am a Kenyan and it is integral for me that people get the right information. i promise I will rewrite again Stephentelian (talk) 09:42, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

@Stephentelian

I told you to create a new topic so that this discussion can be tracked separately and then other editors will have the opportunity to give their varying opinions.

I will not reply you under here again unless you do "Add Topic" as needed by the community.

Thank you. Wår (talk) 09:46, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Note

There is another article at Kenya Protests (2024) covering the same event. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 02:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

And RejectFinanceBill2024 Protests. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 02:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Well noted. We diversified information. Wår (talk) 06:27, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

For the interested

Interested editors are by this notified of the existence of pages associated with the protest such as RejectFinanceBill2024 Protests and Kenya Protests (2024)

Please, while editing, make sure not to have duplicate of information already covered between the 3 articles. Best regards Wår (talk) 06:56, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Note on the merge of 2 related articles into the article Mainspace "Kenya finance bill protests" (June 2024)

This is to notify editors of a discussion that took place on the talk page of Administrator Daniel Case regarding this very article.

The RejectFinanceBill2024 Protests and Kenya Protests (2024) were merged to Kenya finance bill protests following discussion initiated on User_talk:Daniel Case #Urgent attention needed.

• Aim

The discussion was necessary to bring to attention of page creators as well as editors to note that article related articles. It was intended to put editors on notice not to add repetitive contents on duplicate article pages of RejectFinanceBill2024 Protests, Kenya Protests (2024) and Kenya finance bill protests.

• Resolution: It was resolved that both articles mentioned above be merged into Kenya finance bill protests and consequently create the article titles as redirects as such. RejectFinanceBill2024 Protests was merged on 21 June 2024 while Kenya Protests (2024) and redirects were created as agreed by the community. Thanks for your attention.

Wår (talk) 04:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

. אקסינו (talk) 09:34, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

I confirm my involvment Gaismagorm (talk) 14:34, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@War Term@Gaismagorm@אקסינו@Daniel Case other interested, I'd suggest merging this article and Kenya Finance Bill 2024 too, IMO they don't merit separate articles. 2024 Kenya Finance Bill may be an ok title. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:34, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it will help readers. It will muddle things. The Kenya Finance Bill 2024 aims to cover the developments of the proposed Bill from beginning to the end while Kenya Finance Bill protests focuses more on the protests against it. They are too distinctive to be merged. Wår (talk) 08:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

The current title is covered widely in sources and it's the formal tone used entirely in the legislation of Kenya. You can browse the web.

Cheers Wår (talk) 08:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

And I think one article is enough, it will have a "Reactions" or somesuch section. There is also a WP:SUSTAINED aspect, this topic being very news-y, but it may very well be kept in the long run. 2024 Kenya Finance Bill fits WP:NCEVENTS, but Kenya Finance Bill is also "free", so we can use that if we want to. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:51, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Nope. Kenya Finance Bill is not specic. We also had the bill of 2023,2022,2021 and it descends so. "2024" must be included in any title for specification purposes. The current title is most appropriate because it is covered as such on RS. Wår (talk) 09:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

It's specific for en-WP, since no other Kenya Finance Bill articles exists, see for example Ghanaian anti-LGBT bill. Which has a decent-looking "Reception" section. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Good to know. I agree on the perception. Wår (talk) 11:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I have very little opinion on this matter, I mainly just suggested making one of the removed articles a redirect. Gaismagorm (talk) 13:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

also why is the image on the page so huge? Gaismagorm (talk) 13:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

There are 3 images on the page. Which one? Let's fix it? Wår (talk) 13:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

its the File:Occupy parliament reloaded.jpg image. Gaismagorm (talk) 13:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok Wår (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Gaismagorm

Are you ok with the image now? Wår (talk) 13:34, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

yeah looks good! thanks! Gaismagorm (talk) 15:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Welcome Wår (talk) 16:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

23 June 2024 (Move notice)

I moved the section "Controversial Sections of the Bill" to Kenya Finance Bill 2024 to in order sort things out properly. Wår (talk) 06:38, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

See WP:CRIT, such sections are often a bad idea, they tend to become shit-magnets. Also, the section is mostly uncited atm, making it WP:OR, as in "controversial" is the opinion of the writer. You need sources stating these points are controversial, or object against by whoever. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:37, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

It's widely reported to be controversial. Other sources called it "contentious" Wår (talk) 08:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Then use those sources, as written it's your OR. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Go through. Those sources are there all over. Wår (talk) 09:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

So use them instead of adding uncited text in the articles you create. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I said it's all over the article already. You misconstrued? Wår (talk) 12:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

All over the article is not good enough, specific cites in Kenya_Finance_Bill_2024#Controversial_sections_of_the_Bill are what's wanted. Uncited stuff comes across as OR and will probably be removed sooner or later. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:55, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I add one CNN source there right away Wår (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

We don't add cites to headings. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:04, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Please, pardon me. Kindly show me the way it's done. I do appreciate. Wår (talk) 18:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

If you have a WP:RS cite that says

• "A motor-vehicle tax and higher fuel prices resulting from the added road maintenance levy would adversely affect the transport sector and increase the cost of living for most Kenyans due to increased transportation and fuel costs."

is a controversial part of the bill, you put the cite at the end of that sentence, probably with a re-write explaining who says "adversely" etc. WP-editors are not trusted to judge this. I assume you now how named references work by now. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

You know, I was not the creator of that very section. I only moved it from here to there. I am not to blame for lack of sources. I am just trying to fix things just like you. It indeed lacks Inline citations. Wår (talk) 18:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

You added it to that article, so you're to blame for that text being in that article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Can we be brave enough to delete the section entirely? Or sources do exist but we haven't found them? It's OK. Let's not blame anyone again. Open a topic discussion on that on the article's talk page? I mean, how do we resolve the mess? Wår (talk) 18:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Gråbergs Gråa Sång,

Sorry, I missed the CNN source I earlier saw meanwhile I added BBC source which is now handy. How about that? Wår (talk) 18:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Where you placed it [1], it's not doing much good. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

NOTICE

To the editors of this article, let's not be used by anyone. Let's call a spade a spade and write facts without fear or intimidation. Owinomaestro (talk) 03:24, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Causualities section

Please, an editor(s) should help in updating the Kenya_Finance_Bill_protests#Casualties.

It's going Wikipedia:Recentism as casualties were recorded on the June 25 protests where parliament was sent on fire. Wår (talk) 05:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

It may be far too early to get an accurate number of casualties, at the moment every news article is giving a different figure. Tosatur (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

That's fine Wår (talk) 18:16, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

7 Days of rage

I propose that "7 days of rage" section be created on the article. This will cover specifically what occurred during the series of protests declared. And CNN mentioned it. Wår (talk) 06:32, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

The CNN article may not ne enough to suggest a section on 7 days of rage, the title barely crossed local media stations Stephentelian (talk) 10:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Note

Please, new editors should endeavor to be consistent with the word "Protesters" on the article. The use of the version "Protestor" is correct English word but not consistent with the article. I have tried to format the previous ones but let's not be repeating the mistake. Wår (talk) 05:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Has the protests ended?

Should we now confidently say that the protests has ended?

These are last two fading reports after Ruto withdrew the bill and protesters haven't returned to the streets for a week now. See here and here.

Can the WP:Lead now be rephrased to mark and perhaps suggest the end of the protests or it too early to decide yet? Wår (talk) 22:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. More so if there are no more protests planned. 174.92.25.207 (talk) 01:57, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

There are still talks of a collective march on 8th of August, whether or not it will materialize, is yet to be established. Its main front is on X and tiktok under hastags #NaneNane, #NaneNaneMarch and #NaneNaneWatch. Stephentelian (talk) 10:44, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

The protests nature

They are driven and organized by young Kenyans: partyless,tribeless,leaderless.The Communist Party of Kenya is just an opportunist or an attempt at character assassination of the protesters.

I will be correcting vandalism of this article going forward. Mwenemucii (talk) 09:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

The removal of the CPK from the protestors column is unfair as they are active participants and supporters of the protests. It is true that the protests themselves are not organized or lead by any party, particularly the CPK in this case, but including them in the column along with the youth protestors would be more accurate because they are on the side of the protests. Maybe the column of the protestors could include a "Supported by:" section that includes the CPK? That way it would be more accurate by showing their participation & support, while also showing that they are supporters and not leaders of this movement. Geograph2002 (talk) 23:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

The Lead of the article says, "decentralized". I hope that solves every issues Wår (talk) 06:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

i fear adding CPK might incorrectly display a fight between communist driven alliances against the government. While really it's morphed to be between the political class against civilians. If we were to use the reasoning that they showed support then we would have to add LSK and the Churches Stephentelian (talk) 19:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Clarification of dates and Current Events

The Protests Commenced on 18th June, the Storming happened on 25th June and since then there has been a cabinet overhaul, protests against alleged sale of Jomo Kenyatta International Airport and an alleged serial Killer with 42 confirmed bodies mostly of women. All these are integral to the protests Stephentelian (talk) 09:57, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

@Wår

Now Take me through what i should do to change the lead's dates and include that the protests led to a cabinet overhaul, change the dates and also include the pivot of protests to governance and corruption including #OccuoyJKIA Stephentelian (talk) 10:08, 4 August 2024 (UTC)