Talk:Kharijites/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cerebellum (talk · contribs) 15:10, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello! I will be reviewing this article. --Cerebellum (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for picking this up. The nom had been there for quite a while. Looking forward to the review. Thanks. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 00:39, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Very interesting article! Thank you for nominating it. I don't have much of substance for you, the referencing is fantastic. Neutrality and stability are good. I just have a couple points below about images and broadness. Most of my comments are just minor prose issues. I'll place the article on hold for now so you can take a look at the comments below and let me know what you think. --Cerebellum (talk) 13:13, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

• Lead: Is the Islamism sidebar necessary? Islamism does not mention the Kharijites.

It was added to the article before I started editing and I never thought of it. But you are right; Islamism is a recent thing and it seems somebody had added it due to the popular conception of the modern Islamist groups as Kharijites. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• Etymology: I like the wiktionary links in etymology! That is a cool idea. The first one though does not seem to work. Also, could you add a transliteration for خرج? I'm not sure if you need one for the root.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Origin

• This article tends to omit articles (the, a, an) when it should not. This page has a list at the bottom of nouns which do not need an article, but as far as I know words like Qur'an and Kharijites always need an article. So hoist Qur'an on their lances should be hoist the Qur'an. Kharijites denounced Ali's caliphate should be The Kharijites, and of Tigris should be of the Tigris. This issue pops up the throughout the article, I can give more examples if you'd like.

You are absolutely correct:) I have problem with articles, especially the definite article. I have now fixed as many as I could. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Well if you are a native Arabic speaker that makes sense! The English rules are so inconsistent. --Cerebellum (talk) 14:16, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• The images you have are good, for Origin I was thinking you could add File:Balami - Tarikhnama - Battle of Siffin (cropped).jpg, since you discuss the Battle of Siffin.

Done. Also added a map with battle locations etc. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• The first sentence of "Harura" is very long, I would break it into two sentences. Maybe The arbitration proceedings continued however, and after a few months (March 658) Ali refused to denounce the arbitration. He sent his arbitration delegation headed by Abu Musa Ash'ari to carry out the talks, which led the Kharijites to denounce Ali's caliphate and elect Abd Allah ibn Wahb al-Rasibi their caliph.

I have split the sentence but in a slightly different way. Please see if it's okay. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• Were the Kharijites involved in the murder of Uthman? If so it might make sense to mention this after the sentence beginning They held that the third caliph Uthman had deserved his death, just to provide more context.

Yeah sort of. It was mainly Egyptian rebels who actually killed him. But Kufan qurra were also among the besiegers and their leader al-Ashtar is named in some sources as one of the assassins. I have now added more background on the death of Uthman. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• Following this exodus, they were called as Khawarij. I would just say Following this exodus, they became known as Kharijites, the article uses the form Kharijites everywhere else so saying Khawarij here could confuse the reader.

I have to disagree. I find it necessary to use the original word here, which is Khawarij. Saying that they were called "Kharijites" (which is the English derivation of the original word) would be inaccurate. I have added in the article that the word Kharijites comes from Khawarij.

• I think the fact that Ali was assassinated by a Kharijite deserves more than one sentence. Could you add a bit more about what happened?

Done. Let me know if you think more should be added. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Modern scholarly views on the split

• But they denounced it once they discovered that Ali was not recognized as caliph: Starting a sentence with "but" is a bit informal, I would change it to "however".

I removed "but", but since the article is already replete with "however", I did not add it here. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• When he agreed to talks with the relative of Uthman (Mu'awiya): Do you need the "relative of Uthman" part? Could you just say When he agreed to talks with Mu'awiya?

Removed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• According to him, main role in forcing Ali to accept the arbitration was not of the qurra, but of the tribal chiefs under the leadership of Ash'ath ibn Qays, who had benefited from the policies of Uthman. I think there is a grammatical problem here, saying that the main role was of the qurra or of the tribal chiefs does not make sense. I would reword to something like According to him, it was not the qurra who had forced Ali to accept the arbitration, but the tribal chiefs under the leadership of Ash'ath ibn Qays. These tribal chiefs had benefited from the policies of Uthman.

It actually has a not in there: According to him, main role in forcing Ali to accept the arbitration was not of the qurra... so that part is correct IMO. But I have modified the later part to clarify that the beneficiaries of Uthman's policies were the tribal chiefs and not the qurra. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Later history

• When you first mention Abu Fudayk, since he does not have his own article, I recommend including his full name (if known) or saying briefly who he was.

Added full name. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• Isti'rad: I think this should not be capitalized.

Fixed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Traditional Muslim view

• Some hadiths of this sort encourage Muslims to eliminate them. Should this be past tense, encouraged?

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

External links

• Is the "Hermeneutics of takfir" link necessary? It looks like a blog to me. --Cerebellum (talk) 13:13, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

It was there before me, and I did not remove it for fear of potential edit war. Now removed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you for the review Cerebellum. I think I have addressed all of your points. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 03:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

You went above and beyond! I love the info you added about the later years of Uthman's reign, sets the stage really well for the rest of the article. Thank you for the fast response, I'm happy to pass as GA. --Cerebellum (talk) 14:16, 21 April 2021 (UTC)