Talk:Kičevo

Alt. names

It is common practice on Wikipedia to have official names in the infobox, but then list other relevant historical names at the top. Look at Edirne for example. Secondly, the city has significant Albanian and Turkish minorities, so hiding these names down below hardly serves the reader at all. Khoikhoi 15:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Before some time we had problems here in Wikipedia with constant adding/removing of names in the intro sections for Macedonian and Greek cityes. As a compromise, we agreed to make Name sections and any relevant names to be mentioned there. That was the situation for Thessaloniki/Solun, Bitola/Monastiri, Florina/Lerin etc. The problem is that somehow that is not case for the Greek cities (someone returned only Greek namings in the infobox, but so far I have no intention to go and remove it there). Kicevo already has name section and any relevant name can be placed there. MatriX 15:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I can understand why you may want to avoid having the Turkish name in the lead, but Albanian is a co-official language of the state as best illustrated here [1]. What you are proposing would be like removing the Flemish and German names from Liège. User:LieutenantBoom

Also, I don't see why we need to use this compromise only for Greek and Macedonian articles, when most articles do it differently. If you look at Lviv and Gdańsk, they list all alt. names at the top, and don't have a name section at all. Khoikhoi 16:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but Kicevo do have name section.MatriX 09:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Albanian is also official here. Both languages will be equal!! Mr. Neutron 12:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Both of the Languages are official in Kicevo the republic of Macedonia. The Albanian population is higher in Kicevo not sure who edited the info... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.90.70.130 (talk) 19:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Albanian language is official

See here!. 9000+ Albanians out of 30138 people, more than 20% and Albanian is official! Mr. Neutron 14:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The census is all wrong there are more than 30,000 inhabitants in Kërçovë, and a lot more than just 4,000 Albanians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vepton (talk • contribs) 01:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, but as the Macedonian is primary language at national level, I'm suggesting a compromise, in the intro we would mention the Macedonian as the primary language at national level, and in the Name section we would put both the Macedonian and Albanian. MatriX 17:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Albanian is also official on national level. Mr. Neutron 17:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The only language used throughout the country on national level is Macedonian.MatriX 17:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Ohrid Agreement: 6.5. Any other language spoken by at least 20 percent of the population is also an official language Mr. Neutron 17:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Your forgot to write the whole text: is also an official language as specified below:... and it is strictly said that it can be used just is limited circumstances.

Check also this:[2]:

Question: U.S. reaction to Macedonia Prime Minister’s rejection of request from Albanian community to designate Albanian as the official second language for Macedonia? Is this a violation of the Ohrid Agreement?

Answer: The Government of Macedonia is in the process of preparing a language law that addresses Ohrid Framework Agreement provisions for the use of languages other than the Macedonian language. - so, as I said a hundreds times in the last days, the Albanian language is not yet accepted as the official second language for Macedonia. MatriX 17:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

What name?

The article says, "Kičevo was noted in one of the documents of the Byzantine emperor Basil II in 1018". Which name was used? Kicevo, Kercove or Ouskanas? And can we have a source for the document? Thanks. Politis (talk) 11:12, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

As it says a few sentences further up: Kicavis. (That's the spelling found in various tertiary sources on Google books, mostly Yugoslav encyclopedias; it was – apparently mistakenly – regularized to Kičavis in the article, but obviously a Byzantine document couldn't possibly contain anything directly transliteratable to "č".) Couldn't find out what the original Greek spelling would have been. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

http://invenio.lib.auth.gr/record/2098/files/gri-2003-075.pdf?version=1 appears to suggest "Κίτσαβις", but I can't download it right now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:13, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Delčevo - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 16:41, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Since move is being brought up again, the decision in 2012 was no move. Meters (talk) 05:19, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Move

The Albanian population in Kicevo (Kërçova) is booming and the mayor is an Albanian. I think it's fair to change the name to Kërçova. Also the cencus on the Kicevo page is from 2002. There are way more Albanians/Muslims then there were back then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.94.115.95 (talk • contribs) 05:03, March 25, 2014‎

We have no better reference to reliably indicate what the population of Kičevo is made up of. --Local hero ^talk 13:12, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

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Ottoman defter data

I am kindly going to ask wikipedia users not to use defter data to make dubious claims such as "In the 1467-1468 Ottoman defter, Kićevo was divided into two mahallas (neighbourhoods): The Mahale-i Arnavut (Albanian neighbourhood), where the heads of families appear with symbiotic Albanian-Christian-Slavic anthroponomy, where it can be seen that all of the inhabitants appear to be of Albanian origin, as well as the Serbian mahala, were a sizeable part of the population also carried Albanian names"

On what grounds can it be seen that mixed Slavic-Albanian names prove that ALL inhabitants of the city are of Albanian origin? The author here implies that all residents of the city were of Albanian origin including the ones in the Serbian mahala, bear in mind Serbian historians have used the exact same defter data to come to the conclusion that 98% of Kosovo's inhabitants in the 15th century were of Serbian origin. The theory of the Albanian origin of the city's inhabitants is also problematic because the city was inhabited by the Slavic Brsjaci tribes in the 6th-7th century and according to Bulgarian ethnographers in the 19th century the city's population was Bulgarian Slavic with Albanians living in the surrounding villages. How did the city go from Slavic > Albanian > Slavic? This conclussion is dubious because it does not support other sources, it can be used to mention that the inhabitants had both Slavic and Albanian names but it should not come to conclusions based on nationalist narratives that the entire population of the city was originally Albanian.

GoofyMF (talk) 21:15, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Okay we seem to have resolved this issue at least for now but this should remain in case the problem rises up again.

GoofyMF (talk) 21:16, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Well for now as I don't have much interest in this topic area I will not edit much further. But I will say this: Albanians existed in North Macedonia prior to the Slavic settlements of the 7th century. They predate Slavs in the areas Shtip-Shkup-Sharr-Ohrid (at minimum), and as such it should not be seen as "nationalism" to consider that a part may have survived in Kicevo too and co-existed/assimilated with the Slavs well into the 15th century. Nevertheless, I do agree that the current wording was too simplistic and POV. And yeah, don't use Smiljanic, he really isn't what Wikipedia needs. Besides that, have fun editing. Alltan (talk) 21:23, 18 September 2022 (UTC)