Talk:Harambe

Dicks out (again)

Here we are talking about the meaning of Dicks Out again. Might someone write a book? User:A smart kitten noticed the sources don't mention an "armed revenge". Special:Diff/1191834370/1193764666 This bit was added by User:Pyrrho the Skipper on August 13, 2021 (Blame). The meme was originally added by GreenC (me) on September 15, 2016 it said: "For example saying "Dicks out for Harambe" as a fake tribute to an incident that would normally engender sincere mourning." (Blame last diff).

Nevertheless, Pyrrho the Skipper is not wrong. If you look at the context of the original meme creator, what they said, it was clearly in the tone of going down to the zoo and taking revenge. And "dicks out" is street slang for a magazine extender added to a pistol because it sort of looks like that. This terminology is somewhat obscure to most people who in the moment just saw it as a weird way of paying tribute, wanking off the Harambe, as in who cares. So we have what is probably technically correct, and what people actually thought - the later was more diverse. Either way I think "a fake tribute to an incident that would normally engender sincere mourning" is accurate in capturing the general tone and meaning of the meme. -- GreenC 15:47, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Prompted by the edit request below, I removed the parts of the sentence that don't seem to be supported by the sources. In my view, what at least some of the sources seem to suggest is that one of the people who originally used the phrase 'dicks out for harambe' meant it in the way of 'dicks' meaning 'guns'. However, memes can very easily take on a life of their own after their initial use, and I don't believe the current sources support the idea that the popular and/or widespread usage of the phrase was in any way to do with guns or an armed revenge. (I'm also cautious about the idea of including the meaning behind this person's use of the phrase in the article at all, in case it would be WP:UNDUE when compared to the meme's much more widespread/popular usage.) All the best, 20:46, 13 January 2024 (UTC) ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 20:46, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

It's precise origin as slang for gun is true, and reliably sourced. Often these slang terms the origin is unknown so it's amazing in this case there is a reliable source. That doesn't mean this is the official dictionary definition, or wins by being first. It is simply the origin of the phrase. It's not our job to choose a definition, we provide all points of view, so long as they are sourced. It's not UNDUE to say what the origin of the phrase is.

We probably have better sourcing for guns than anything else, if we had to choose one definition over another - what exactly is the "widespread" meaning, because it seems to change depending on the person's POV. Whereas the gun POV is precise and easily sourced. Either way, both guns or the ambiguous "widespread meaning" can both be characterized as "a fake tribute to an incident that would normally engender sincere mourning" - which is what the article originally said and is sourceable.

Maybe for now, the gun origin can be explained in a Note. The armed revenge aspect is not sourced, but it was the original intention by WP:COMMONSENSE when you put all the pieces together (the context and tone of its original usage, the street slang meaning of "dicks out", and the creators stated meaning of guns). We'll have to wait for something that satisfies Wikipedia policy for the calling-for-revenge aspect. -- GreenC 23:12, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The following quote encapsulates the guns ("arms") and avenge motive ("call to arms"):

"The call to arms 'Dicks Out for Harambe' was quickly turned into a popular expression by comedian Brandon Wardell."

From a well-known book and author. GreenC 01:49, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

This book lists various other POVs:

All kinds of meanings ["Dicks out for Harambe"] flooded the internet, from it’s a statement for closeted gays to show their genitalia to each other without seeming gay to a vicious attack on African Americans. Some interpreted it to mean “guns out” as a symbol for revenge for the gorilla’s death. Others concluded that the act of pulling out your penis was a “sign of respect for our fallen hero, Harambe.” Others blamed the alt-right for turning it into a racial insult. Not a moment was lost before the hate speech constabulary nailed down these various meanings as clearly racially offensive.

... the book is by Charlie Kirk with a forward by Donald Trump so it's reliability is uncertain. But it does factually state different meanings. It misses origins in guns (perhaps intentionally), as correctly reported by other sources, but does capture the "revenge" aspect. -- GreenC 02:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

@GreenC: I'll be honest, I feel as though I'm out of my depths a bit here. Because of that, I'll defer to you as to what you feel should be included - my main concern was that the previous wording seemed to me (when reading) to imply that the usage of guns/the (facetious) call for armed revenge was the widespread usage of the meme (when the sources at the time seemed to only verify that this is how the phrase may have been intended by one of the people that popularised it). All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 02:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Right, it's hard to know what the widespread meaning is because it quickly got taken in different directions as noted by the above quote by Kirk. I'm confident "dicks out" is originally gangster rap slang for a high-volume magazine clip, it existed prior to Harambe.

A good question is why does any of this matter? Magazines, books, all spend time on this. The best analysis I saw was that it was a barometer of the mood of the country in 2016 before Trump won the election - racially charged, Twitter meme culture, counter-counter-culture, anti political correctness. I'm not sure how far we want to take it: leave as-is, make a Note section, expand in a sub-section, or create a standalone article. It's a difficult subject whatever the case. -- GreenC 03:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 7 February 2024

Goodall said "we will never be able to be 100% sure that people and wildlife won't be injured when they are in such close proximity", but she believed that zoos "with the highest standards of care" could play an important role ----> Goodall said "we will never be able to be 100% sure that people and wildlife won't be injured when they are in such close proximity", and she believed that zoos "with the highest standards of care" could play an important role in the animals' well being.

Rationale: I've read the source. The 2 points here are unrelated, so using "but" does not make any sense. Goodall was making 2 separate points. 165.189.141.59 (talk) 23:13, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done
— Urro^{[talk][edits]} ⋮ 15:38, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

The part "in the animals' well being" is missing. Without it, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I've read the source and can confirm that this is what she meant. 172.220.1.251 (talk) 18:11, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

So was the requested edit implemented or not? If it was, the answered parameter of the edit request template needs to be changed from answered=no to answered=yes . Shadow311 (talk) 19:55, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

No, it was only partially implemented. 172.220.8.65 (talk) 07:13, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 Question: What exactly is missing from Goodall said "we will never be able to be 100% sure that people and wildlife won't be injured when they are in such close proximity", and she believed that zoos "with the highest standards of care" could play an important role? M.Bitton (talk) 14:21, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

The part "in the animals' well being" is missing. Goodall didn't mean to imply that zoos "with the highest standards of care" could play an important role in making sure people and wildlife won't be injured. The 2 points in the sentence are answers to 2 different questions. Please read the source to confirm. Thanks! 172.220.1.251 (talk) 18:46, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Done Special:Diff/1205978987/1206012899. I have not read the source recently but I take your word for it that is what she said. -- GreenC 00:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2024

Harambe did not violently drag the child,he only lifted the baby and cared for it as if it was a baby gorilla.No harm was done to the child.The death of Harambe was due to the unsupervision of the mother of the child and the heartless reaction of the zookeeper(source:the original video. </ref></ref> 193.203.158.133 (talk) 12:13, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Sources support the characterization. See previous talk discussions. -- GreenC 17:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Harambe Token

Ok this keeps popping up in the article, most recently with 5 sources about it prominently in the lead section - and nothing in the body of the article. This is a problem for a couple reasons: the WP:LEAD section is a short summation of the entire article, and does not require sources, because the article is already sourced. The Harambe Token is not even in the body of the article at all, and even if it was, it's not so important that it should be summarized in the lead. Second, this looks like gorilla marketing (sorry) for the coin. None of the sources really demonstrate notability. They are press releases, and other sorts of not strong sourcing. The mere existence of the token is not necessarily reason for inclusion, we need a good reliable independent source or two about it. -- GreenC 18:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Where was harambe shot and what did they use to shoot him?

hello fellow wikipedians!

Does anyone have a source that states were he was shot and what weapon was used?

This source says he was shot in the head.

https://www.nonhumanrights.org/blog/harambe/#:~:text=Fearing%20a%20tranquilizer%20dart%20would,that%20swiftly%20followed%20was%20extensive.

And this source says a Remington 870 was used by the zoo workers.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/an-inside-look-at-the-cincinnati-zoo-s-dangerous-animal-response-team/3566219

Despite these souces, my edit including such information was removed.

What do I do now? BadMombo1660 (talk) 00:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I didn't revert but was glad to see. Not everything that can be sourced should be included. This level of detail was not widely reported. Also unclear why it's important. No doubt the zoo's Dangerous Animal Response Team has appropriate tools, this is their job, there is nothing controversial or notable about their choice of tools. Its not like a murderer or mass shooter where the weapon is significant for reasons like gun control controversies. (BTW I think Wikipedia needs a DART also.) -- GreenC 02:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

The source says the DART team was certified with that gun but didn't say they used it to kill Harambe. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)