Talk:Killing of Ismail al-Ghoul

Opposition to deletion

Imo, this article should not be deleted, as it is about an important figure in the ongoing situation in Gaza, as well as the subject being the target of an Israeli war crime. Blepii (talk) 20:20, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

@Blepii help me to not delete this article and vote.

Thanks QalasQalas (talk) 20:31, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

How can I help the article not be deleted? Hagar1017 (talk) 05:00, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

@Hagar1017 it's Done now, but you can participate with through voting system Support or Oppose QalasQalas (talk) 12:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Not Single Event

@FlightTime, open talk page, for me not WP:SingleEvent.

• On Monday 18 March 2024 he was arrested and harassed by Israeli armed forces reported by BBC Arabic

QalasQalas (talk) 20:30, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

No idea how this works but there's no mention in the article of the fact that Ismail al-Ghoul was also a member of Hamas' Nukhba unit and participated in the October 7 massacre justifying the airstrike that he was killed in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100E:A022:92D8:1EC:83FA:77DF:C57C (talk) 17:58, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry but Propaganda doesn't work here, maybe you should visit Times of Israel if that's what u are looking for... 💌Ayesha46 (talk) 19:00, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Claiming he was just a journalist is as much propaganda as anything. If there is contention as to who or what he was, both sides need to be presented in the article. 147.235.217.35 (talk) 00:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

He was a journalist. Just like hamza Dahdouh, Israel produced a fabricated document to explain that he was khamas. Note that this document somehow didn’t manifest into existence when he was in their custody but only after they assassinated him. The flaw in this document however is saying he joined the qassam brigades in 2007, when he was 10 years old The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

“Propaganda doesn’t work here”

immediately recommends the times of israel Blepii (talk) 03:16, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - update with IDF response

please can someone add the IDF position on the attack which killed alghoul here, including the claim that he was a Hamas militant. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-confirms-gaza-strike-that-killed-al-jazeera-reporter-says-he-participated-in-october-7-massacre/ MosheDov1 (talk) 19:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Assassination of al-Ghoul and al-Refee

After the IDF declared carrying out a strike in Gaza Strip that was deliberate assassinated Al Jazeera reporter Ismail al-Ghoul and cameraman al-Refee, saying [al-Ghoul] was a member of Hamas’s elite Nukhba force who participated in the October 7 according Time of Israel and Reuters

@Shushugah help me to publish seprate article or redirect. QalasQalas (talk) 22:21, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Adding the IDF evidence for Hamas affiliation

• What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):

−

The Israeli military has, so far, refused to provide evidence of their claims.

+

The following day, the IDF released Hamas documents confirming al-Ghoul's membership in the [[Nukhba_(Hamas_unit)|Nukhba forces]]

.

• Why it should be changed:

Evidence was released.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

TomNormanCohen (talk) 08:48, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

At a minimum, it's disputed if the documents actually "confirm" this. (t · c) buidhe 13:48, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Not evidence, unless there are 10 year olds in the qassam brigades coordinating combat operations and ambushes against Israeli forces in Gaza. Not to forget, idf has provided fabricated documents for other journalists they have assassinated The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 14:45, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done: this edit would need consensus and given that TomNormanCohen is not extended confirmed, they cannot engage in the consensus forming process. Others are welcome to continue the discussion here or start a new one in order to seek more input. M.Bitton (talk) 16:35, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

@TomNormanCohen: the above comments make it clear that your WP:EDITXY does not have consensus. M.Bitton (talk) 10:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Last Name

I'm seeing usage of "al-Ghoul", "Al-Ghoul", and "Al Ghoul". Could someone more familiar with the subject please advise on which spelling to use for consistency? Upjav (talk) 16:23, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

With the “the” prefix in Arabic names I usually see “al-“ with the a in lowercase The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 14:44, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 19 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. No oppose !votes here. Best, (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans 18:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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Ismail al-Ghoul → Killing of Ismail al-Ghoul – al-Ghoul wasn't encyclopedically notable as a journalist before his death. Most of the coverage on him is within the context of his killing, which should be the main focus of the article. Mooonswimmer 10:17, 19 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Waqar💬 15:34, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

The coverage of the subject from the siege of the hospital is from March – five months earlier – so there is evidence of broader coverage here. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:19, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support. The entire article seems to be about his death. JIP | Talk 17:39, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

• Very weak support—A separate incident that happened back in March has its own subsection, and beyond that, the same reporter had already extensively covered the situation on the ground in Gaza.[1] It's not as if he has no claim to notability apart from his killing. However, on balance, his death is easily (and unfortunately) the most notable aspect of his public life, whereas everything that came before can be adequately covered in a subsection (or the same subsection as the one detailing his arrest and torture from earlier this year). Kurtis ^(talk) 22:27, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Changing to just plain old Weak support. "Very" serves to emphasize a reluctance that isn't as strong for me as had been implied before. Kurtis ^(talk) 19:37, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 25 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The IP requesting this move is not extended-confirmed, and There is a rough consensus that requested moves do not fall under the edit request carve out. – wbm1058 (talk) 13:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

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Killing of Ismail al-Ghoul → Assassination of Ismail al-Ghoul — al-Ghoul was assassinated instead of being killed, On 1 August 2024 the Israeli military posted a tweet on their official Twitter account bragging about assassinating al-Ghoul and claiming, that al-Ghoul was a Nukhba operative who participated in the 7 October attack.

95.183.203.226 (talk) 14:25, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Most sources still call it a "killing", not "assassination". Azuredivay (talk) 08:09, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support per (IDF) and Huffpost. QalasQalas (talk) 18:01, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:RS do not support "assassination" description/characterization in Wikivoice—"killing" more accurately reflects WP:RS

No WP:RS of which I'm aware describes this as an "assassination"—"killing" would be better, and it's possible an argument could be made for "targeted killing". Even the Al Jazeera article cited in our article was careful to use the term (in that case "targeted assassination") only in quotation marks—when quoting a statement from none other than… the Al Jazeera Media Network. Yet "assassination" is used throughout, in Wikivoice—and should be edited to more accurately reflect the descriptions of WP:RS.

Thanks! Ekpyros (talk) 17:20, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Ismail al-Ghoul was member of Hamas’s elite Nukhba force, directed terrorists on how to film, distribute videos of attacks on Israeli troops

The IDF confirmed carrying out a strike in Gaza City on Wednesday that killed Al Jazeera reporter Ismail al-Ghoul, and said he was a member of Hamas’s elite Nukhba force who participated in the October 7 onslaught. In addition to his participation in the massacres in southern Israel, al-Ghoul also instructed other terror operatives on how to film and distribute videos of attacks on Israeli troops 136.26.96.233 (talk) 21:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)