Talk:Killing of Wadea al-Fayoume

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 02:13, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the Killing of Wadea al-Fayoume in Illinois was a response to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war?
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Balkan terrapin
  • Comment:

Created by MagicatthemovieS (talk). Self-nominated at 03:48, 17 October 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Brian Merrett; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @MagicatthemovieS: Needs qpq and the article is semi-stable. Earwig alerts to a long quote from Jill and Joe Biden. Could be a possible ITN so we should watch there. We need a QPQ as the nominator has more than five DYKs Lightburst (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC) Lightburst (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

To speed things along I have donated a QPQ. Template:Did you know nominations/Balkan terrapin Lightburst (talk) 19:49, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

temporary hold - the article is not stable with multiple editors adding and subtracting. Any promotor can make a determination and promote if they feel it is not an issue or the article stabilizes. Lightburst (talk) 19:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

FYI Ive moved the page to Killing of Wadea al-Fayoume per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Arabic#Definite_article. nableezy - 18:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

looking much more stable now. Lightburst (talk) 21:36, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Online rumors that Czuba is Jewish are false

Some people online have been speculating that Czuba is Jewish, which motivated him to kill a Palestinian child.[1][2] I added one RS to the article reporting that Czuba is a Roman Catholic who attends church with his wife. The local Patch also quotes his defense attorney as saying "Czuba also attends St. Mary's Immaculate Church in Plainfield," which confirms the source I cited but may not be RS in itself. HouseOfChange (talk) 23:45, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 October 2023

Please add the following text to the "legal proceedings" section:

"In addition to the Justice Department's investigation, the FBI announced a separate hate crime investigation on October 16." Truecrimefan22 (talk) 09:11, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

I've made the requested change with some modifications to the reference and the sentence. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 02:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

References

Name of suspect

Some reputable sources e.g.

• https://www.reuters.com/world/us/illinois-man-charged-with-hate-crime-fatal-stabbing-muslim-boy-2023-10-15/
• https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/plainfield-landlord-joseph-czuba-arraigned-murder-hate-crime-wadea-al-fayoume-stabbing/
• https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/30/landlord-pleads-not-guilty-killing-muslim-boy-hate-crime

have named the suspect, who has been indicted. Should the article do as well?

Thanks,
cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 10:58, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes we should, BLPCRIME does not say we cannot publish his name, just we should consider. Named in numerous RSs, we look like a nanny outfit by withholding it. WWGB (talk) 13:34, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@WWGB Why isn't the name of the suspect in the article? 2603:8080:EAF0:9B00:28CC:C890:22A6:6D9E (talk) 07:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

It is now. WWGB (talk) 08:04, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Given the highly publicized nature of the accused's identity and their relationship (as landlord) to the victims, I strongly agree their identity as the accused belongs in the article. However, because the default per WP:BLPCRIME is innocent until proven guilty (and WP:BLPPUBLIC says an accusation against an individual of public notability should be carefully presented as such), I limited mentions of their name in the body to the "Accused" and "Legal Proceedings" sections. Since the reporting only says he's accused, we can only say he's accused at this point. Danazar (talk) 17:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Killing of Wadea al-Fayoume/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Moazfargal (talk · contribs) 19:54, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Davest3r08! I'll be reviewing this one. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 19:54, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

GABox

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Verifiability

You cite this source in the "Killing" section. The source says that police arrived at the scene at 11:35, which is inconsistent with the attack starting at 11:38 as the secton currently states. You cite this other source later in the article that says that the attack started 11:30 and that police arrived 11:38. Kindly fix this confusion. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 22:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done Verifiability problem solved. Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 00:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement

I'll place a few suggestions for improving the article prose below. Kindly strike out those you act on, or comment if you feel differently. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 22:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Lead section

• Add information about the aftermath and reactions.
• Change "in what authorities said was an anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian hate crime ... Authorities said the killing was an extremist reaction to the contemporaneous 2023 Israel–Hamas war, a part of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict." to "[[Authorities have described the killing as a hate crime motivated by [[Islamophobia and anti-Palestinianism, and an extremist reaction to the contemporaneous 2023 Israel–Hamas war." (This unifies all authorities' remarks in a single sentence, uses the more common term 'islamophobia' and avoids a sea of blue.)

 Done Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 00:07, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Killing

• Add an "at" before "around 11:38 a.m. on October 14, 2023."
• Change "Shahin scratched him then ran to the bathroom and called 9-1-1." to "Shahin scratched him, ran to the bathroom and called 9-1-1."
• Change "she found her son, six-year-old Wadea al-Fayoume, with multiple stab wounds" to "she found here six-year old son Wadea al-Fayoume wounded with multiple stabs."
• Change "were transported to the hospital" to "a hospital," unless the hospital is known, in which case it should be mentioned in the sentence.
• Instead of all refs being at the end of the paragraph, place each reference at the end of the sentence it is relevant to.

 Done Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 23:53, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Accused

• Relocate the sentences in this section that talk about the killing ("Joseph Czuba, the 71-year-old landlord of Shahin, came to her door on October 14, angry with her about what was happening in Jerusalem. After she responded "let's give peace a chance", he attacked her with a knife. Law enforcement officers who arrived at the scene found Czuba sitting outside Shahin's home with a laceration on his face.") to the section above. Also, consider replacing "laceration" with a more common word/phrase like "deep cut."
• "At a hearing on October 16" I don't think this is particularly relevant to the topic at hand.
• Like in "Killing," instead of all refs being at the end of the paragraph, place each reference at the end of the sentence it is relevant to.

 Done Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 23:54, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Legal proceedings

• Remove "committing" so the sentence reads "two counts of hate crimes.

 Done Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 23:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Aftermath

• Change "in Plainfield at a local basketball court" to "at a local basketball court in Plainfield."
• Change "was also in attendance" to "attended."
• Decapitalize "president."
• Change "with another being earmarked for creating a charity" to "and another portion will be used to establish a charity."

 Done Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 23:34, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Reactions

• Change "prompted many public statements and condemning" to "prompted many public statements and condemnations."
• The entire text of Biden's statement is not needed. Summarize it in normal inline prose.

 Done Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 23:51, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Review on hold

As is customary practice, I will place the review on hold for seven days until the aforementioned issues are resolved. Davest3r08, if you finish this in less than seven days, notify me here (and ping!) or on my talk page. After these issues are fixed, I will invite a more experienced reviewer (this is my first review) to chip in with their thoughts. I'll also need their help with checking the conformity with the relevant policies of the image used and checking for copyvio, as I am inexperienced in these areas. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 22:55, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Moazfargal, sure! — Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 23:00, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Davest3r08, sorry for the delay. I'll be checking the article in a moment. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 16:33, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I've noticed a number of minor issues, which should be fixed easily:

• In the lead, start a new paragraph at "The killing lead to." Also, the fundraiser was created organized ... and creating establishing."
• Also in the lead, remove the individual charges and say instead that he has been charged with five counts for which he potentially faces up to ...
• In the "Killing" section, move reference 3 to the end of the sentence.
• Czuba's age and position as the leandlord belong in the "Accused" section, and the fact that he has been arrested/charged isn't needed in the "Accused" section as it is already mentioned and elaborated on in the "Legal proceedings" section.
• In the "Aftermath" section, add a comma after "spoke to the crowd" and remove the comma after "LaunchGood". Again, change "created" to "organized" with regards to the fundraiser.
• Rephrase the last paragraph to: "The attack, along with other similar events, have led many Palestinian Americans and other Muslims to cancel plans, made them monitor their speech and actions, and made them concerned about their safety and that of their family members. A similar concern was seen by Jewish Americans, and security has been increased around mosques and synagogues across the country."

@Moazfargal  Done Davest3r08 >:) ^(talk) 17:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

—M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 16:53, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Great! I've posted to WT:GAN requesting assistance with the image and copyvio criteria, and that a more experienced reviewer give their thoughts before I finally close this nomination. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 17:29, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Review passed

Davest3r08, it seems there is no issue regarding copyright and the images, as far as I can understand from what I've read. Since I do not want to delay this review further, I'm going to go ahead and pass this nomination. Congrats! —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 16:26, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Image deletion discussion

The image deletion discussion baffles me. It very obviously was not a press agency image - he was not known before he died, so it's obviously a photo taken by his family and so the copyright belonged to his family, who would have little commercial interest in exploiting the tragic loss of their son. Seeing a picture of him is obviously contextually important and standard on these kinds of pages. PARAKANYAA (talk) 20:11, 22 February 2024 (UTC)