Talk:Kirkpatrick Sale

Notes on changes

• I think views should be more chronological by period he wrote them. Just most logical.
• There have been more recent articles by and about Sale predicting catastrophe lately in last few years, including good WP:RS and I can research them. They are related heavily to current secession views. So I think it's more than just trivia, but not necessarily deserving of it's own section. Could be integrated into either technology since the 3 catastrophes here are all related in one way or another to technology. But he also bases views that break up of nations/secession inevitable because of predicted catastrophes. So perhaps ideas could be integrated into both sections. It's really more than trivia in his overall views.
• Also, FYI, I put in controversy because I did a lot of work on the article and have a minor association with Sale and didn't want anyone saying I was white washing anything. I don't feel strongly one way or the other about taking it out. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:11, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Carol -- As far as Sale's prediction of ecological/social catastrophe, I also think these views are worthy of inclusion, if taken seriously. I just thought that the way they were presented was sort of trivial (just "something he made a bet about"). I think you're right that the science/technology section (or perhaps the industrialism or ecology sections) would be the proper place to discuss some of this, rather than a "Controversy" section.

As far as developing Sale's views chronologically, I'm not sure how that would work out. Sometimes ideas (especially complex social theories) are developed over many years, intertwined with other ideas that are developing concurrently. Sometimes it's easier to talk about these themes in their thought as units, in a nonlinear manner.

As far as the controversy section, I understand why you put it in, but I think it's best if we just integrate a neutral discussion of any controversies into the article body. Controversy sections tend to be garbage magnets that draw in vacuous op-ed rhetoric from corporate pundits. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 00:31, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

RfC

BAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:53, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Dubious on SDS founder

This books.google search doesn't turn up any such factoid and if he was a founder you know that would be mentioned repeatedly. Only mentions the fact he wrote a book called SDS and I think the grad student who wrote that article in American Conservative just got confused, thinking book SDS was a memoir or something. So let's take it out. User:Carolmooredc 23:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Since this obviously is a major WP:BLP issue, I also emailed Sale who said he was not a founder. Please do not put this back. Thanks. User:Carolmooredc 14:04, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Views on history

In the section “Views/History,” the bulk of the text is given over to the views of someone named William Hardy McNeill who disagrees with Sale. All we learn about Sale’s views on history (the putative topic) is that in one of his books “Sale argued that Christopher Columbus was an imperialist bent on conquest from his first voyage.” We don’t learn any more details. All we learn is that McNeill deplores this view and negatively characterizes anyone who expresses it. This is an absurd lack of neutrality and balance. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 17:55, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Bet with Kelly

It needs to be corrected to note that in January 2022 Sale acknowledged that he had lost the bet with Kelly. See the update at the bottom of the relevant Wired article. Nicmart (talk) 02:36, 19 December 2022 (UTC)