Talk:Kliment Voroshilov

Untitled

Is this NPOV?

...but due to his incompetence...

Is this common knowledge that it was his fault? /I96danma 21:16, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I belive that incompetent is the right word to describe him. Kurt.

The article presents a far too antiseptic a view of a venal and ruinous figure of severe military ineptitude. Missing information may be coming.

You don’t specifically point out what occurred due to his incompetence, what the context of the line is. But it is generally excepted that Voroshilov was incompetent as far as I’m aware. Dorromikhal (talk) 16:31, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Intro vs. body

There is disconnection here. The intro mentions his heroic work at Stalingrad. Yet the body of the article says nothing about this. The intro mentions dropping a ceremonial sword. The body does not mention anything about this either, when it happened, where, etc. The intro and the body need to be consistent, at least. Bigmac31 (talk) 18:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I’ve watched the documentary series warlords which claims he dropped a sword that I think Churchill gave to Stalin in celebration of the victory at Stalingrad but I don’t consider the documentaries all that good so I wouldn't use it as a source. It is the only instance in which I have heard of this incident but I haven’t read anything about Stalingrad yet so that’s to be expected I guess. It is at least proof this is not just claimed at this Wikipedia page. Dorromikhal (talk) 16:37, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

NPOV

I don't think we can call him incompetent, that decision should be left to the reader. Also we call him brave and clumsy. --Ysangkok (talk) 08:12, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

че, Ворошилов аж 7 лет жил ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.88.210.181 (talk) 21:56, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Maybe an assessment section could be created to were historian’s opinions on Voroshilov can be collected. Than such the rest of the article could be made more neutral while no information is lost. Dorromikhal (talk) 17:38, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Note

There were suggestions that Stalin was blackmailing Voroshilov. See The Secret Life of Joseph Stalin; A Hidden Life, by Roman Brackman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.176.183 (talk) 13:23, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Note

its strange that about his tank, the kv-1, there is absolutely nothing mentioned on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.82.134.21 (talk) 21:41, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Image edit war

Guys, I had to lock the article because of the recent edit war. Can you sort out your differences on the talk page rather than edit war? Alex Bakharev (talk) 05:52, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Its not an edit war, just some guy with the name Trust Is All You Need constantly vandalise this page, by deleting all images for an unknown reason173.254.28.67 (talk) 01:20, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, anyway, I'll restore the original articleNIkitahohl (talk) 10:05, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Trust Is All You Need: can you elaborate, why do we need to substitute all the images in the article by the image on the right?

Will you be satisfied if we just accomodate the image somewhere in the article? Alex Bakharev (talk) 07:35, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

@Alex Bakharev: There's no point in having all those images, especially when the majority of them don't even relate to the text... As for the infobox image, I'm against having a portrait (which beautifies the individual)... Of course, we can have a section titled "Images of Voroshilov", some articles do, but I wouldn't like it very much. --TIAYN (talk) 13:37, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

May I ask you how all those images reflecting the main political events in Voroshilov's life are "not relate to the text"? Are you really serious? And how on earth a portrait, performed in a style of Russian realism( Isaak Brodsky was a student of Ilya Repin - the founding father of Russian realism) can "beautifies" him? He isn't depicted on horseback, or reviewing a parade, or whatewer, he's just sitting at the table in his office. As for your photo, it is quite poor quality, and it is cut out from some larger image. Don't you think it is better to have an image of a particular person than a small cutting from some group photo?Radyanskysoldativ (talk) 19:43, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Having a picture of VOroshilov with foreign leaders just because doesn't help the article, especially when it makes the article looks cramped. I've tried to explain it to you, but you are not interested. Fine. --TIAYN (talk) 20:29, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Tastes differ, but usually having multiple images of the same person taken in different surroundings and at different times helps to better understand who the person looked like. Having group photos helps to see the social position of the person. Brodsky portrait whether it was a beautification or not was a sort of an official avatar by which millions of contemporaries seen Voroshilov (he lived before TV era). If you ask me I would have as many free images as possible without visual crowding the article. This is just a personal opinion I would agree with whatever consensus is formed. Alex Bakharev (talk) 02:08, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Each photo displays this or that event in his life, indicated in the text - Turkey's trip, his presidency, relations with Khrushchev, etc. After all, you did't write this article, which was originally designed with these images. but then you come, deleted half of all this, because you "don't think that it should be here", then replaced the clear colour picture with low quality crop black-and-white photo because "it seems better to me". Do you realize how pathetic it all sounds?Radyanskysoldativ (talk) 20:21, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

@Radyanskysoldativ: And I feel you sound pathetic. Ever thought that is the problem? Arroganse. --TIAYN (talk) 20:58, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I have restored the status quo before the start of the edit war and protected the article. Protection is not an endorsement of any version. If you get any consensus please drop me a note and I will unprotect the article Alex Bakharev (talk) 00:51, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

@Alex Bakharev: My suggestion, change infobox picture and create a "Gallery" section.. I've seen it in other articles. See below;--TIAYN (talk) 06:41, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Gallery

• Hover over each photo to view label detail
• 
  Voroshilov in his cabinet. Portrait by Isaak Brodsky
• From left to right Kaganovich, Stalin, Postyshev, Voroshilov
  From left to right Kaganovich, Stalin, Postyshev, Voroshilov
• 
  With Turkish leader Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and Andrey Bubnov at the celebration ceremony for the tenth anniversary of the Turkish Republic in 1933
• 
  President Voroshilov with J.K. Paasikivi in Helsinki
• Klim Voroshilov and his wife with Stalin and Allilueva
  Klim Voroshilov and his wife with Stalin and Allilueva
• 
  Klim Voroshilov, Maxim Gorky, Joseph Stalin (left to right) 1931 photo

Birth name

It is not clear what his birth name was from this article. Instead it implies Voroshilov was a name he took like a lot of the other Communists.

Sections

I think the “Soviet political and military career” is too long and propose creating separate interwar, WWII and postwar sections to make the article easier to navigate. Dorromikhal (talk) 21:43, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

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Death

As he died on December 2, shouldn't the article be written that he felt unwell on a "late autumn night" vice "winter night" ? 83.20.177.163 (talk) 08:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)