Talk:Klingon scripts

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Created as part of a proposal to break out the Writing systems section of Klingon language.

Reasoning:

1. The alphabets discussed here are distinct from both "Klingon languages", which are typically (and officially) written in the Latin alphabet.
2. These alphabets can also be used to transcribe English, as the illustrations show.
3. Thus the language(s) and alphabet(s) are not tied together in the way that (for instance) the Russian language and the Cyrillic alphabet are tied together.
4. Readers can, and may wish to, learn about the language(s) without learning about the alphabet(s) — or vice versa. The page structure should permit this.

If this is acceptable, the remaining step will be to replace that section in Klingon language with a link to this page. A similar link will also be placed in Klingonaase.

Translations and tags will also be needed.  – SAJordan ^talk_contribs 04:35, 9 Nov 2006 (UTC).

wikipedia logo

Mongolian

ive long since stopped being a contributor to wikipedia, but someone should make reference to the fact the wikipedia logo contains a pIqaD character in the top right corner —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.44.223 (talk) 13:24, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure? While it looks almost like , it's not close enough to make me want to claim it as fact. ~naHQun —Preceding unsigned comment added by NaHQun (talk • contribs) 04:22, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

There's now Amharic in that spot. I don't know what the old one was; will have to look it up. But Klingon really does look like Mongolian (left). Don't know if that's coincidence or if the Mongol hordes were taken as inspiration for things Klingon. — kwami (talk) 23:59, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Prior to the 2010 logo revision, pIqaD "r" was in that spot. VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 00:00, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Excessive Detail

In April 2016, Wikipedia user ChristTrekker has added the box complaining the page contains too much detailed information, and I agree with him. Nevertheless, I don't have the time to edit the page, not do I know what exactly is this "excessive detail that may be against Wikipedia's inclusion policy."

Anyway I would not like the information to be lost, so I suggest it be moved to the Klingon Language Wiki where that information surely IS wanted. The Klingon Language Wiki is free and open to everyone just like Wikipedia, and the policy is only that contents must be about the Klingon language, no matter how "detailed" it is. Visit one of the following pages, add the removed information there and put a link from WP pointing there for "further information":

• http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/PIqaD
• http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Fonts
• http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Unicode
• http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/WikipediaLogo

Regards,
Lieven (talk) 11:05, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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• Corrected formatting/usage for http://web.archive.org/web/20041012093544/http%3A//higbee.cots.net/~holtej/klingon/faq.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061208232839/http://www.kli.org/pdf/Orthography.pdf to http://www.kli.org/pdf/Orthography.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061224234551/http://qurgh.wizage.net/cards/cards.html to http://qurgh.wizage.net/cards/cards.html

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Y Edit worked, however the change for http://web.archive.org/web/20041012093544/http%3A//higbee.cots.net/~holtej/klingon/faq.htm removed a section link (which I have re-added). This might be a bug in the bot. --Pokechu22 (talk) 02:59, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

The bug has since been fixed.—CYBERPOWER (Message) 23:33, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

pIqaD Unicode

I don't want to add this myself, since it is related to myself, but Everson (with whom I have no quarrel of any kind, quite the opposite) did his ConScript registration from my existing allocation of code points in Documentation/unicode.txt in the Linux kernel back in 1996. His proposal for allocating it de jure was in turn based on this allocation. As this failed, my allocation (F8D0..F8FF) still stands.

HPA (talk) 04:12, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

I've added the information on Documentation/unicode.txt being the basis of both the Unicode and ConScript proposals. It seems uncontroversial because it's noted in the proposals themselves. Feel free to tweak the wording because I'm feeling less than articulate at the moment. DRMcCreedy (talk) 17:19, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Klingon

What is used for the letter F Traycray (talk) 04:03, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Klingon has no such letter, nor does it have e.g. G, since it's not a sound in it. You might want to look at the sounds of klingon page (I don't remember if there's a page like that on wikipedia too). --Pokechu22 (talk) 04:28, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

contradiction

This needs some cleaning.
The first paragraph says:
The KLI version of the pIqaD alphabet was created by an anonymous source at Paramount, who base[...]

and a few lines below, it says:
The KLI adapted version of pIqaD utilizes the character set originally assembled by author [...]

Only one of these two can be correct, and I know it's the latter. Besides, the second paragraph should not belong into the skybox cards paragraph, because th skybox pIqaD is surely not based on the KLI's pIqaD.

--Lieven (talk) 07:06, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

It is confusing, an the Skybox section also has some ungrammatical English sentences. I couldn't figure out what it was saying. It also doesn't list the dates when these alphabets were designed. 2601:441:5000:ADF0:C131:1148:8553:BA48 (talk) 00:07, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Font for Mandel script

"In 1989, a fan by the name of David Christensen of Seattle, Washington, developed the first computer text font based on the Mandel script, prior to there being font software, meaning the font was built entirely in ResEdit." font software existed in 1989.

Ikarus from 1975 (impractical since it ran on minicomputers) and Fontastic from 1984 and Fontographer from 1986 (both on Apple Mac) Coldbreeze16 (talk) 15:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Does this article need to include private-use characters?

One of the principles of Wikipedia is that it should be medium-independent. You can print Wikipedia pages on paper, in books, in braille, etc. This is why we don't use terminology like "this website" here. Not only is this article specific to electronic text, and explicitly says so, even worse, it uses private-use characters in a way that ties Wikipedia to specific fonts, which is unfit for a general-purpose encyclopedia. I know we have "encoding warning" templates on some other articles that use uncommon Unicode characters, but the difference is those articles' text is actually covered by the Unicode standard, so those articles are portable in theory, unlike this one. PBZE (talk) 10:46, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

I think the use of private-use characters is appropriate for the "ConScript Unicode Registry" section, because that's the actual topic. I can't argue for them in the rest of the article tho. DRMcCreedy (talk) 14:56, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

• Agree with OP PBZE: enwiki should not uses private-defined scripts. That is: no PU characters inline.

Now, since the wiki should describe the script and its implementations allright, the characters & their private Unicode code points must be presented as images—solved. The fact that the designation is private as in Private Use characters, this must be noted (I have adjusted the infobox). -DePiep (talk) 13:28, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Posted at WP:Village Pump -DePiep (talk) 13:39, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• There's an MOS page about this: MOS:PUA. It says PUA characters should normally be avoided, but they are sometimes used when they are found in common fonts, especially when the character itself is the topic of discussion. Tengwar#Unicode is given as an example. Based on that precedent, I agree with Drmccreedy: they make sense in the "ConScript Unicode Registry" section, but not elsewhere. Double sharp (talk) 22:45, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

  By the letter, that MOS allows the characters inline indeed. But the examples SIL (phonetics) and Chinese point to characters missing in Unicode, used & needed otherwise. Additionally, we can note that the example PU character could be/is added to Unicode later on, and so replaced; Klingon OTOH is rejected for Unicode.

  This article, however, is about the character-as-character (character listing). So the question still stands: why is the actual use of PUs required, next to correct description/EL/images? DePiep (talk) 08:28, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  FWIW, L2/16-325 says Respond to submitter that it looks like there is sufficient usage to justify encoding Klingon as a script. UTC would need clear proof that Paramount would not pursue legal action against the Unicode Consortium, or anyone who implements the script. Double sharp (talk) 14:55, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  The point with SIL characters was and is: initially a PU for RL use, then incorporated in Unicode for proven need, afterwards in wiki replace with that Unicode character. Speculating on a future Unicode version is meaningless. DePiep (talk) 15:07, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  Not disagreeing with you, just trying to find whatever the latest Unicode comment about Klingon was. (I since found L2/20-169 which again reiterates trademark/copyright as an issue.) I'm convinced by your argument. Double sharp (talk) 15:48, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  .. and understood as such, no pwoblem. I elaborated to refine the situation for other readers. DePiep (talk) 15:59, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• Avoid all PUA use - any font following standard Unicode can be expected not to have a different character in the position in question. Either the font has the right character or it has nothing. No one needs to be concerned that Unicode character number 0591 (in hex, not decimal) would display anything but the trop mark known as an Etnachta. In the PUA, the situation may be different. And the right way to display a character when the character itself is being discussed is as an image (display the character on your own screen in a font which supports it, black foreground and white background, take a screenshot, and crop to remove the background). Animal lover |666| 06:58, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• Remove PUA characters per DePiep. Double sharp (talk) 15:48, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• Open a Phabricator ticket for Klingon to be supported and track issues / progress This is fundamentally technical issue at the WMF level and carving out a workaround on en.wiki risks setting up conflicts with a whole lot of different pieces of work. See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/ Stuartyeates (talk) 19:58, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
  • It's not a technical issue. The Klingon characters are not defined in Unicode, and the CSUR recording is in the Private Use Area. Ergo, anyone can redefine it for a new font, and putting the PUA characters in the article ties us to a specific external font. Double sharp (talk) 21:24, 14 November 2022 (UTC)