Talk:Kludge (magazine)

An independent magazine well know in the Greater Los Angeles Area published by Arturo Perez (a professional critic [1]). Its writers included professional critics as Chris Green. It meet all the primary criteria at WP:CORP [2]. It is a normal magazine very similar to Big Cheese (magazine).--Strawberry Slugs (talk) 21:16, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

It didn't meet notability requirements yesterday. Why do you think anything has changed? Eeekster (talk) 21:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Yesterday it was deleted because described a webzine but it is a magazine.--Strawberry Slugs (talk) 21:22, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

What bothers me the most is that you maliciously recreated this page even though it was deleted by administrator Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} [3] You were CLEARLY told not to create these types of pages on both your talk page and Seraphimblade's talk page. And you still have not asserted notability or barely changed anything. your linkedin link does not assert notability of either Kludge or Arturo Perez. REGARDLESS of whether or not it was a webzine or magazine, its notability is still not asserted. L Kensington (talk • contribs) 21:23, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Its writers are professional critics so the magazine is notable. This asserts the notability of Arturo Perez. The magazine meet these criteria.--Strawberry Slugs (talk) 21:30, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

No it doesn't. "It's writers are professional critics" Says who? LinkedIn does NOT indicate the notability. Do you think that John Smith is notable for being a consultant because he is listed on LinkedIn too? Maybe you should read the criteria over again. Especially the section "Independence of sources" where it states "Sources used to support a claim of notability include independent, reliable publications in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, television documentaries, websites, and published reports by consumer watchdog organizations[1] except for the following" "any material written by the organization, its members, or sources closely associated with it". "If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. " "A company, corporation, organization, school, team, religion, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. A single independent source is almost never sufficient for demonstrating the notability of an organization." I could probably post the whole thing and cite how many criteria the article doesn't meet.

Chris Green is a professional critic.--Strawberry Slugs (talk) 21:52, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Chris Green does not indicate notability of Kludge. Chris Green is not a source. If Chris Green worked at 123 Avenue bar when he was 23, it does not mean that the bar is notable. It's the same for this article.

Notable or not, CSD A7 does not apply to written publications such as books and magazines. So I've removed the tag, please use prod if you want to delete the article. De728631 (talk) 21:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Chris Green worked for the magazine from 2001. Arturo Perez is a professional journalist [4].--Strawberry Slugs (talk) 22:01, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Once again, these people do not assert notability of the magazine. Citing an article with an interview with Perez (or any person for that matter) does not make Kludge notable. Like it was stated before, there needs to be independent sources (these people aren't sources anyways) that are not associated to this magazine. L Kensington (talk • contribs) 22:06, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I've added some sources that make this article pass WP:Notability (media). "Notability is presumed for newspapers, magazines and journals that verifiably meets through reliable sources, one or more of the following criteria:

1. have produced award winning work
2. have served some sort of historic purpose or have a significant history
3. are considered by reliable sources to be authoritative in their subject area - criterion met
4. are frequently cited by other reliable sources - criterion met
5. are significant publications in ethnic and other non-trivial niche markets" - probably met too.

De728631 (talk) 22:10, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Billboard, PureVolume, Epitaph Records use Kludge magazine as source [5] [6]. The Kludge founder is a professional and award-winning journalist [7]. Its writers are professional critics that included Chris Green among others [8].--Strawberry Slugs (talk) 22:15, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

It's ok now, Slugs, the topic is in fact notable enough. But please stop referring to the writers of this magazine. As you can read in my note above it doesn't matter for inclusion if the staff is notable and professional. All that matters is what other sources say about a magazine. And others did actually use Kludge as a source and it was frequently cited as an authority in Indie matters. Let's focus on fleshing out the article now, there should be something about media data like circulation, concept, etc. De728631 (talk) 22:25, 21 August 2010 (UTC)