Talk:Knox County, Tennessee

POV Issues With Government Section

This section needs a re-write to deal with POV issues. Sidatio 21:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

• Actually, this entire article needs a fair amount of work. I'll start on what I can this week. Sidatio 22:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

To those of you who are editing this article as a result of the News-Sentinel online article this week:

Don't get me wrong - I live in Knox County and I'm just as upset about the aftermath of Black Wednesday as some of you might be. However, coming over to this article and going on a slanted POV rant WILL NOT SOLVE ANYTHING. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia - not a blog or forum. If you are looking for a place to discuss these issues, I suggest you find one of the latter. If any of you want to help me build a better KC article from a neutral point of view, you're more than welcome to do so. Thank you. Sidatio 09:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

After those edits, I think it looks ok. It's all sourced. I'm going to take off the tag. --AW 14:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I know this is going to be a point of contention, but there's still POV issues. For example:

• In 1994, Knox County voters overwhelmingly passed term limits on Knox County officeholders... - Do we have a source for the voting record that we can link or quote? What, exactly, is "overwhelming"? 60%? 80%? I think it would be much better if we gave a solid figure if possible, instead of having this word.

• For thirteen years, these officeholders ignored the term limits. - Whether they ignored it, fought it, or didn't know about it is irrelevant for information purposes. Maybe in a separate article dealing with the issue specifically, but I don't think it's a very informative fit here.

• ...but not in what many observers in Knoxville considered a forthright, public process. - Even if we had a source for this, I don't see it fitting here. Again, we're trying to inform about the government in general, not one controversy in particular. That would be better dealt with on its own article, if one can be written well enough to merit it.

• When the commissioners were deadlocked, they recessed out of view of voters in violation of the Tennessee Open Meetings Law, where they proceeded to strong-arm commissioners to change their votes. - To my knowledge, the commission hasn't been found in violation of the TOML yet. If they have, we need a source.

• Most of the section about the 1/31/07 meeting needs a re-write, particularly The commissioners swore in one of the newly appointed commissioners, but not the other six newly appointed commissioners, to break a deadlock vote. (source), Commissioner Craig Leuthold's father, Frank, was appointed to represent the same district. (what district?) Commissioner Mark Cawood succeeded in getting other commissioners to vote for his wife to replace him. (source), Two days after the appointment, it was revealed that Josh Jordan was an admitted drug dealer. (We need to note that this happened in 1992, when he was a teenager. Semantic, maybe, but as it reads, one might assume that he is a recent or current drug dealer.) Actually, ALL of this would be better suited on its own Wikipedia page, in my opinion.

Bottom line, the article still shows a slanted POV. I'll be the first to say that I believe shady dealings went down (and still do) during that meeting, but it's best discussed elsewhere. We still need to work on this article and make it more informative and encyclopedic. Until then, I restored the POV tag. I'm working on the re-write - I will post progress to my website here. [[1]] It might take a day or two for me to get the page up. Feel free to email suggestions to comments(at)sidatio.com. Sidatio 14:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

• Strike that - I'm just re-writing on the fly. Feel free to contribute! Sidatio 15:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

We have a problem with two of our sources - one is broken ("Backroom Deals", source for 1 and 2) and the other is an opinion piece (5). The former needs to be repaired; the latter really isn't good for an information article as it inherently has a slanted POV and isn't really an information piece. I've removed it and the quotation it referenced. Sidatio 15:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it's fine to have the opinion piece though, as it gives people's opinions of the scandal. It wasn't a letter to the editor, it was a News-Sentinel writer. I think it should be noted as such though. --AW 15:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I also fixed some of your issues. --AW 15:32, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a good start, but this article's got a long way to go - there's much more to Knox County than its geography and Black Wednesday, right? Oh, and the sources for 1 and 2 are still broken - the link goes straight to the News-Sentinel front page. We'll get it fixed, though! Sidatio 15:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Good point. I added a bit on the structure of the government, but definitely. Some more history, geography, etc would be good. --AW 17:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

• Added Reassess tag. This article needs a fair amount of expansion - I don't think this is a B-Class just yet. It seems to be closer to Start Class to me. Anyone else? Sidatio 16:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
  • This page actually has the facts pretty much as they happened. I watched the whole thing play out since I live here in Knox County and this is the way it happened.talidapali 18:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I live here too, but Black Wednesday isn't what Knox County is all about. It's one of the events that happened here and deserves to be mentioned, but it's threatening to take over the entire article. Plus, there's POV issues that have to be addressed with that piece in particular. We can guess what went down, and we can report on the editorials the News-Sentinel wrote about it, but it's not a neutral point of view and assumes WAY too much. It's simply not encyclopedic to leave it as it presently stands.

Also, as far as watching "the whole thing play out" - you could be a commissioner who actually took part in the meetings and it still wouldn't matter. We have to go with what is verifiable. Sidatio 19:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

• Changed the name of the section dealing with government controversies to "County government controversies" instead of "law and government". The section really doesn't talk about government in and of itself, but rather controversy surrounding one or two issues in government.Nf utvol 22:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with concerns about POV, and also think too much emphasis on current or recent events like this turns the encyclopedia article into journalism. It needs more context and perspective.--Parkwells 18:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Added more background, context, and sources. Given citizen response to the issue and the fact that amendments to county law are being discussed, there's a likelihood that these controversies will have historical value as catalysts. 68.155.23.206 19:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Violation of WP:UNDUE

If no one has any objections, I'll be getting rid of the entire government controversies section. It clearly violates WP:UNDUE, and appears to be more of a journalistic endeavor than material suitable for an encyclopedia article. Bms4880 (talk) 21:55, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

No issues here. Maybe it'd be useful to have a brief synopsis of the controversy? nf utvol (talk) 02:58, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Probably not on this particular article, but a separate Wikipedia article covering Knox County government might be a good topic for discussion. Sidatio (talk) 14:01, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

History

Why isn't there anything on the antebellum years? Reconstruction, or 20th century changes to economy? I've noticed this in other places. At the state levels, too, there is a tendency to jump from founding to the Civil War, where many people like to write about the battles. There was much else going on in society that influenced the aftermath of the war. Since people in EAst TN did subsistence farming, how long were they able to support themselves on that? When did industry start? These are elements that should be included. --Parkwells 18:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• I think the issue is either a lack of sourceable material, or a lack of people to read the books in which that material would be sourced. 68.155.23.206 19:35, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Courthouse photograph

I'm wondering if we should use a photograph of the City-County building instead of the Knox County Courthouse. The City-County building is now technically the courthouse. Bms4880 (talk) 16:13, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

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Page protection?

Should there be page protection for this article? There are at least five times recently where incorrect info was added about who the current mayor is. David O. Johnson (talk) 04:53, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Police killings

I'm reinstating my edits to the KSCO Killings section since the section is NOT news as the activities in question are 1 and 3 years old and the tone I used is factual and neutral. All my assertions are backed by reliable local sources and the same sort of information about historical police killings is recorded elsewhere on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EastTNPoliceStories (talk • contribs) 15:56, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

EastTNPoliceStories, first off, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. please stop, read more on the wikipedia polices like WP:NEWS. and WP:NPOV. and if you have any further questions, ask on the WP:TEAHOUSE. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 17:13, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

LakesideMiners First off, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS explicitly states "This essay is not a standard reply that can be hurled against anyone you disagree with who has made a reference to how something is done somewhere else." You can't just post a link to justify your reasoning against mine. The "Other Stuff" I'm referring to is a hundred+ page series of notable killings for multiple countries with individual pages by year and month for the US. This is not some one-off article I'm referring to. It's a curated format. Also, here's another important note from right on the top of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. "This is an essay. It contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. This page is not one of Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, as it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community. Some essays represent widespread norms; others only represent minority viewpoints." Your reference to a Wikipedia guidance page, WP:NEWS, is just as lazy. You meant to link WP:NOTNEWS. And again, I see nothing in that guidance page that says listing the details of the history of a government organization is a violation of policy. I am not posting original reporting, or breaking updates, or extensive biographical details, or excessive details about the events. Thirdly, WP:NPOV is policy page with over a dozen subheadings. One line of bad POV was pointed out, and thank you for that, but the remaining satisfies all requirements for neutral tone as I read them. If you have a specific qualm, please point that out. EastTNPoliceStories (talk) 17:43, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

EastTNPoliceStories What you are adding IS news. and other stuff exists fits,because just because its on one page for a county, dosnt mean it is ment to be placed on EVERY page. what you are putting on the page here. should be on the list of police killings. NOT here. STOP your editing, and ask for help at the teahouse. Oshwah should be here to help you, as I have left a note on his talk page. STOP editing, I do not want either of us to get into an edit war. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 17:36, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

LakesideMiners You seemd to be getting angry and losing your edge on grammar, syntax, and formatting. Your opinions are yours to hold, but I maintain this information is not news. It's history and it's germane to the article in question. Also, I did not link another county, but a disambiguation page for multiple countries, which will eventually lead you to the page for the US by month. Are you suggestion I should simply link from this page to the list of killings page for relevant entries? I could make a list or table here and link to there. I find that an acceptable compromise. EastTNPoliceStories (talk) 19:03, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

References