Talk:Kollaa

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 20:48, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

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Kollasjoki → Kollaa River — Restore previous English-language name. Claimed new title (in WP:LEAD) of "Kollasjoki River" shows absolutely zero WP:GHITS compared to original name with 294 results. - Relisting  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 22:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

—Sladen (talk) 19:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

This seems to be an unfortunate campaign for linguistically uninformed name constructs.

First, the GHITS comparison was irrelevant, since the current article name is not "Kollasjoki River" but plain "Kollasjoki" (which has few, but not many hits). The more commonly used Finnish river name in turn is "Kollaanjoki", which would be more relevant to probe the uniqueness of the usage of Kollaa River in English language texts. "Kollaanjoki" (–wikipedia) has about 200 hits on English pages, "River Kollaanjoki" has 65 hits.

Kollasjoki is an alternative Finnish name, which is also the current river name in Russia (the river is currently Russian). Nearby is the lake Kollasjärvi. Literally the word Kollaanjoki means "River of Kollas" (Kollaan is the genitive of Kollas); in this sense "Kollaa" does not originally make sense as an independent word. However, as "Kollaan" would also be the genitive of a hypothetical name (word) Kollaa, by misunderstanding in connection with military history, the concept of a spurious toponym Kollaa seems to have arisen, and entered uninformed English translations along with similar Finnish usage (my reasoning).

To avoid the propagation of all this confusion, I suggest keeping the basic toponym Kollasjoki, which is understandable both from the Finnish and Russian backgrounds. I would not object the article name Kollaanjoki, which admittedly is a more widely used term also in English, and linguistically correct; the Google counts are not decisive against it. I do object the construct "Kollaa River". --Martenz (talk) 21:23, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Martenz: It was you yourself that moved the article and switched the contents[1] to use "Kollasjoki River". Thank you for the confirmation that this is indeed incorrect, and for providing the GHITS numbers that neatly back this up. —Sladen (talk) 21:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

• Without references in the article, this is really a non-issue. There isn't enough information to make an informed decision on this, so I won't offer one.
  — V = I * R (talk to Ohms law) 04:08, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
• Weak Support I know it as Kollaa River because of my Winter War readings (Battle of Kollaa and the Kollaa River Line). The move was made without discussion in late December 09, so a return to the status quo may be most appropriate.--Labattblueboy (talk) 06:14, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Further note, the asteroid 1929 Kollaa is named after the river.--Labattblueboy (talk) 05:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose (for now) - Kollasjoki (alone) seems to be used often enough to refer to this river - is there much evidence to show that "Kollaa River" is more common in English? Knepflerle (talk) 04:15, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Strange, I haven't found too many english hits for Kollasjoki. Google scholar came up nothing for Kollasjoki. For curiosity sake, could you provide some English sources that use the term because I had a pretty hard time coming up with anything.--Labattblueboy (talk) 05:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support. Google Books returns 45 hits of Kollaa as a river, and zero for Kollasjoki; Google News (archive search) likewise has 8 hits for Kollaa and zero for Kollasjoki, The New York Times has 3 verses zero; Chronicling America has five verses zero and the Time of London has 4 verses zero. Forget Kollaa being just far more common in reliable English language sources, it appears that Kollasjoki doesn't even appear in any I can locate.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:01, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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