Talk:Konstantinos Bellios

Dubious section and language added

Macedonian language that was codified in 1945, is added to the name of a man who died in 1838. This man was with Greek identity and from Vlach background. This addition is nonsensical. The section claiming his ideas impressed ethnic Macedonian activists, is backed by a single source written by an ethnic Macedonian author, who has been sharply criticized as highly biased by a lot of other researchers. Jingiby (talk) 16:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Including a text written in Macedonian Slavic in an article about a person from the 18th-19th century isn't unjustified in the general case. The language may not have been codified, but a form of it was still spoken in the area. Besides, most of the languages of the Balkans hadn't been codified using today's standard at that time, and this specific language was written, albeit rarely and using a form of Cyrillic mostly associated with Bulgarian proper today.

However, when it comes to this specific individual, the use does seem out of place. There is no evidence that he ever considered himself anything other than Greek, and in fact he didn't even have Slavic-speaking roots (but Vlach ones) as so many others that the Macedonian national movement later "claimed". What the sources (one of them actually) do say is that he "inspired" the Young Macedonian Literary Association, half a century after his death. This would probably a remnant of the earlier multi-ethnic character of the Macedonist movement, but that's just a guess. However, I'm not even so sure that this source is factual, as, unfortunately, historians from North Macedonia don't have the best reputation when it comes to preserving texts from the period. So, if the preamble in the source turns out to be legitimate, then that claim would be true.

However, including it does seem a bit much, since about 1/6th of the text of the article would be about a passing mention of the man in a relatively minor work published half a century after his death. The Slavicisation of his name is inappropriate in any case. --Antondimak (talk) 16:35, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

The final of the cited issue № 1 of Loza reveals the ethnicity of its authors: Just a comparison of those ethnographic features that characterize the Macedonians (we understand the "Macedonian Bulgarians") with those that characterize the free Bulgarians, their arrangement to those principles of nationality, which we listed above, is enough to show us and convince It is clear that the ethnicity of the Macedonians cannot be other than "Bulgarian". Jingiby (talk) 18:07, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Some remarks: Bellios was not from Greek Macedonia as it is written, while it exists after 1912. He was from the Rumelia Elajet of the Ottoman Empire, but the country of his origin is even not mentioned. Jingiby (talk) 20:16, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Well his area of origin is inside today's Greek Macedonia, so I guess it is there to avoid confusion with North Macedonia. We could have something like: "from Blatsi in the Ottoman Empire, today part of the Greek region of Macedonia". I don't think the relationship of the Macedonian movement with Bulgarian nationalism at the time, a quite complicated matter, is relevant to this article. --Antondimak (talk) 21:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

That above is a good idea. Jingiby (talk) 21:07, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Done, per talk above. I have clarified his country of origin and have removed the section about the ideas about relationship of the Macedonian movement and Bulgarian nationalism at the time, replacing them to the appropriate article. Jingiby (talk) 06:04, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure why it would be irrelevant to Bellios's own article that he partially inspired a movement years after his death. --Local hero ^talk 19:24, 3 December 2020 (UTC)