Talk:Krasnaya Polyana, Sochi, Krasnodar Krai
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Name translation
editQuestion: according to the article, Красная Поляна translates literally to "Beautiful Glade". Yet according to dictionaries, красный means "Red", which could be an alternative literal translation as "Red" is often a part of place names from the Soviet era. Could someone who knows Russian clarify? -Thanks. 86.129.87.134 20:41, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
- Beautiful is an archaic meaning of the word "красный". Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 01:25, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- Although Ezhiki is correct - that Красная does carry the alternate (archaic) meaning of beautiful, the wording in the lead paragraph of this article is misleading. It should NOT state that the LITERAL translation of Красная Поляна is "Beautiful Glade", but should instead drop the word "literally" and just provide the translation given. It is NOT a literal translation - the literal translation would be "Red" instead of "Beautiful". --Saukkomies talk 15:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, it is a literal translation alright. Just because one of the meanings of the word is obsolete does not make the translation not literal. "Red Glade" is in this case simply an incorrect translation, not "literal" :) However, having a footnote stating that the meaning is obsolete would not perhaps be such a bad idea.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 10, 2012; 15:59 (UTC)
- Sorry, you need to educate yourself on what the meaning of the word "literal" is. Literal in this reference means specifically that the precise, most commonly-accepted interpretation of the Russian word krasnaya would be red. The alternate, archaic, less-known and less-common translation would be beautiful. I know this from my own studies of Russian, and I also today asked a couple of native Russian speaking friends about this, too: one of them (born and raised in Kyiv), had not even ever heard of the concept of krasnaya refering to the concept of beautiful. I think if you want to have a fight about this you'd better come up with something more than your own opinion about it. But I don't want a fight - however, on this one point I have to be firm: the "literal" translation of krasnaya polyana would be: red clearing. Go ahead and use beautiful glade in the lead paragraph if you wish, just don't say it's the "literal" translation, because it's not.--Saukkomies talk 21:52, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
- Hey, this really is too minor and unimportant to fight about (and I wasn't gonna). Point taken about the meaning of "literal", though; thanks. That'll be my bit of "knew it but forgot" for today :) However, I still think having a footnote would be beneficial, regardless of how the translation is labeled. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 10, 2012; 22:04 (UTC)
- I agree totally. Perhaps the sentence could be worked out to somehow indicate that there is more than one possible meaning for the phrase, like: Krasnaya Polyana (meaning: red clearing, or beautiful glade), or something like that.... --Saukkomies talk 01:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
- How about something along the lines of
while in modern Russian the word "красный" (krasny) most commonly means "red", here it is used in its now archaic meaning of "beautiful".
? Or perhaps something shorter than this :) I wouldn't put it as the first (or even second) sentence, though.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 11, 2012; 03:11 (UTC)- My apologies for my snarky attitude in the preceding posts. I believe that it could be worded thus:
the Russian word "красный" (krasny), meaning "red", has an additional, archaic meaning of "beautiful".
--Saukkomies talk 18:52, 21 May 2012 (UTC)- No offense taken. Regarding your proposed version, I don't have any problems with it. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 21, 2012; 19:16 (UTC)
- My apologies for my snarky attitude in the preceding posts. I believe that it could be worded thus:
- How about something along the lines of
- I agree totally. Perhaps the sentence could be worked out to somehow indicate that there is more than one possible meaning for the phrase, like: Krasnaya Polyana (meaning: red clearing, or beautiful glade), or something like that.... --Saukkomies talk 01:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
- Hey, this really is too minor and unimportant to fight about (and I wasn't gonna). Point taken about the meaning of "literal", though; thanks. That'll be my bit of "knew it but forgot" for today :) However, I still think having a footnote would be beneficial, regardless of how the translation is labeled. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 10, 2012; 22:04 (UTC)
- Sorry, you need to educate yourself on what the meaning of the word "literal" is. Literal in this reference means specifically that the precise, most commonly-accepted interpretation of the Russian word krasnaya would be red. The alternate, archaic, less-known and less-common translation would be beautiful. I know this from my own studies of Russian, and I also today asked a couple of native Russian speaking friends about this, too: one of them (born and raised in Kyiv), had not even ever heard of the concept of krasnaya refering to the concept of beautiful. I think if you want to have a fight about this you'd better come up with something more than your own opinion about it. But I don't want a fight - however, on this one point I have to be firm: the "literal" translation of krasnaya polyana would be: red clearing. Go ahead and use beautiful glade in the lead paragraph if you wish, just don't say it's the "literal" translation, because it's not.--Saukkomies talk 21:52, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, it is a literal translation alright. Just because one of the meanings of the word is obsolete does not make the translation not literal. "Red Glade" is in this case simply an incorrect translation, not "literal" :) However, having a footnote stating that the meaning is obsolete would not perhaps be such a bad idea.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 10, 2012; 15:59 (UTC)
- Although Ezhiki is correct - that Красная does carry the alternate (archaic) meaning of beautiful, the wording in the lead paragraph of this article is misleading. It should NOT state that the LITERAL translation of Красная Поляна is "Beautiful Glade", but should instead drop the word "literally" and just provide the translation given. It is NOT a literal translation - the literal translation would be "Red" instead of "Beautiful". --Saukkomies talk 15:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
krasnaja poljana
editIt seems that words "krasnyj" (red) and "krasivyj" (beautiful) have common root, but in modern Russian language "krasnyj" means only "red" like, for example, "Red Square". Since that square is rather old it is possible that in olden days was called "beautiful".
1864 massacre and ethnic cleansing
editIt seems that a major historical element is missing from the history of Krasnaya Polyana, in the massacre of 1864 (there or nearby) and ethnic cleansing of Circassians dating from the June 1864 decision, from the battle at Krasnaya Polyana. I'm not familiar enough to make the edits. I hope someone can. Cossaxx (talk) 08:52, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
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External links modified
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