Talk:Kratom

Someone has edited this who clearly has an opinion and does not understand the science they are copy and pasting into the article needs to be fixed ASAP — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.252.28 (talk) 23:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Head

If Doc James could please explain why the Kratom page is locked down from editing it would be beneficial to the entire community. Although Wikipedia is not a true authoritative source, many people treat it as such. For the Kratom page to contain such biased information is a disservice to all who read it. At the minimum, information should be presented in an unbiased manner, and include research from both sides of the argument, rather than just one. This is the purpose of Wikipedia, and failing to do so is an abuse of the Wikipedia system.

How come the wikipedia page for Kratom is so biased?

The side effect profile should be updated. It is very important to distinguish self-reported side effects from "common" side effects. Nausea and vomiting have been reported when too high a dose is taken, but when dosed appropriately it is rare (http://speciosa.org/8-factor-analysis-of-kratom-performed-by-dr-hennigfield-submitted-the-deafda/). Constipation has been reported more commonly than nausea or vomiting.

Respiratory depression from kratom is far less than any oher opioid, and is even markedly lower than codeine (http://speciosa.org/8-factor-analysis-of-kratom-performed-by-dr-hennigfield-submitted-the-deafda/). The only evidence of kratom causing seizures is suspected to occur when people combine kratom with ither substaces, or use very high doses for extended periods of time.

Moreover, the following claim must be updated if wikipedia wants to maintain a non-biased, informational page on kratom:

Deaths have occurred with kratom both by itself and mixed with other substances.[6][14]

This is not an undisputable fact, but is presented as such. The American Kratom Association and Dr. Henningfield formally requested the FDA rescind this allegation due to lack of evidence. (http://speciosa.org/8-factor-analysis-of-kratom-performed-by-dr-hennigfield-submitted-the-deafda)

It should be changed to something more like:

As of 2018, the FDA has made claims that associate Kratom with 44 deaths over 7 years. Many scientists dispute this claim, saying the FDA does not have sufficient evidence to implicate a Kratom in the deaths and actually present evidence to the contrary in a study on kratom performed by Dr Jack Henningfield (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aka-files-formal-demand-for-fda-to-rescind-false-advisory-about-kratom-300556786.html). Additionally, many scientists believe banning Kratom would worsen the opioid epidemic and potentially increase the number of overdoses. This was saidin anopen letter to Robert Patterson and Kellyanne Conway (https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/9ba5da_086cf409644547d9b4df864f707e0d92.pdf)

To compare the alleged 44 deaths from kratom over 7 years to prescription opioids, in 2008 alone there were over 36,000 deaths from prescription opioid pain relievers just that year. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22048730). In 2016, opioids (including prescription pain killers, heroin, and fentanyl killed more than 42,000 people (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22048730).

As far as withdrawal, yes there can be symptoms. However they are far milder than any other withdrawals such as from oxycodone, heroin, methadone, or suboxone.

I hope wikipedia can remove or rephrase some of the biased viewpoints in this page! It is currently locked against "vandalism", otherwise I would have suggested more neutral edits myself.

There are many scientists that believe banning kratom will cripple research into new painkiller medications. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/kratom-drug-ban-may-cripple-promising-painkiller-research/

All in all, as a doctor with some smeblance of responsibilty for public health, I hope that Doc James will review this information and take it to heart to update the wikipedia page for kratom. To not do so is a terrible disservice to all who read the page, and could potentially hurt the millions of people who use kratom in a healthy and beneficial manner.

We reflect high quality sources. Would recommend you convince the CDC and FDA to change their position. We will than follow suit. Best Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:57, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Did you even glance at the studies I referenced? The FDA has a vested interest in banning this substance due to major lobbying from pharmaceutical companies. Please take the time to read it over before you make a decision. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrueDoctor (talk • contribs) 21:50, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

I'd like to vouch for the idea that the page be reviewed to an extent to consider the potential biases on the subject. I've noticed throughout my experiences that there are many, many misconceptions about kratom on either side of the table. For instance, an 'overdose' from kratom is not comparable to that of almost any other drug, and it is (I believe) always non-lethal and nothing more than a bout of nausea and vomiting at worst. In my experiences, both personal and through research and study, respiratory depression is not a symptom of kratom use. As well as all that, kratom withdrawal is absolutely an event when ceasing use. It's a relatively minor withdrawal, especially in comparison to other drugs and opioids, but its symptoms are similar if nothing more than weaker than that of any other opiate.

There are some facts and some fictions/misconceptions within the article, and I wholeheartedly believe that. There are countless sources in the forms of scientific studies and articles that argue against some of the points stated in this article. I hope the author of this page considers them.

I'm only a member of the public, with minimal authority on the plant and its use or misuse. I'm sharing my opinion on the matter, and I know that others agree with me and I hope the author of the article will consider my thoughts on the subject. Again, there is a lot of truth on this page, but there are also a handful of biased misconceptions.

Thank you for your time,

- A regular joe of the public. :)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.2.75.247 (talk) 01:20, 9 May 2020 (UTC) 

Sorry, I'm the poster above and figured I'd come back to be a little bit more personal and friendly. I'm not a wikipedia editor, I'm very new to this. Please excuse any acts of mine that could be deemed improper wikipedia etiquette. Thank you Doc James, not only for reading my thoughts, but also for being a doctor and helping the general public. We disagree on a certain matter in some regards, but I respect you for your profession and your service as a medical practitioner. I may not agree with you entirely, but I respect your opinion. (For the record, however, there are high quality and respected pro-kratom studies and articles out there!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.2.75.247 (talk) 01:29, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Mitragyna speciosa which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:16, 27 July 2023 (UTC)