Talk:Krystyna Skarbek

Untitled

Former version: Bucharest, Hungary. Was it Bucharest or Budapest? --Halibutt 07:00, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Good question since the only Bucharest you hear of, and probably the only one suited as a spy's base, is in Romania. But the next 'graph does say "Hungary" as well, so change to

Budapest, Hungary

as most likely case, pending certainty. --Jerzy 23:37, 2004 Jan 13 (UTC)

---

Text, left intact in 'graph 3, is

She was arrested twice but on both occasions she managed to get away.

If she escaped by stealth, or by seducing and/or murdering her guards, or was rescued by the Resistance while being moved for interrogation (as happened in the case of Jean Moulin), that is worth saying unambiguously; if she merely was released by seeming innocent, that too should be said. --Jerzy 23:37, 2004 Jan 13 (UTC)

krystyna skarbek

reading about the women the thought she might be a double agent means so many differant things but the truth will always be hidden so how do we find the truth and what about her life befor the war

Geee... but what exactly do you mean? Wiki is not about finding the truth, it's about reporting the facts. That's not the same... Halibutt 22:04, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Picture

What was wrong with the picture and why was it removed? [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 21:38, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)

From my talk page:

i have recently completed writing the manuscript for what I hope will be the definitive biography of Krystyna. She was definitely not a double-agent. Her accuser was a Polish officer of the Szosty Oddzial (Sixth Bureau) who could not stand to have someone as charismatic as Krystyna on his patch (Cairo). None of the rumours he spread about her were ever confirmed and she was eventually re-instated as an SOE operative.

By the way, Krystyna was NOT born in 1915, but earlier, and not in Mlodzieszyn. Her birth and baptismal certificates have been located in Poland. When I find a publisher for my manuscript I will correct what has been written about her in Wikipedia (which I fully support). Ron Nowicki

• Could you please give details of the birth certificate? I know her SOE file and subsequent biographies quote the 1915 date, but I guess this is partly because Polish civil registration records aren't easily accessible.

Also, I was interested in your comment about the VI Bureau officer - were you able to identify him? Are you suggesting his comments were the sole reason for SOE barring her and Kennedy from further Polish work? My understanding was that the govt in exile's decision to distance itself from independent intelligence networks was probably politically motivated, not the result of suspicions over individuals (although allegations about individuals like Krystyna would have provided a useful excuse).(Spirit2409 (talk) 19:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC))

Countess

The Krystyna Skarbek line of the Skarbek family doesn't have an aristocratic title. They wasn't counts, just szlachta (nobility), but used the title only for glamour and money. by J.S. Dunin-Borkowski, Almanach błękitny, Lwów 1909. Archiwum Główne Akt Dawnych, Heroldia. Kowalmistrz 16:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

That would seem to make Krystyna Skarbek's achievements all that more remarkable.

Why didn't her branch of the Skarbeks have rights to the title?

logologist|Talk 16:35, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think she didn't know that ;) I don't know why the Skarbeks from Krystyna's line do not have the title. My friend found that info in a book about Polish heraldy, some Polish historians made a research in archives. We can read about it in some articles, like in Polityka (current issue ;)). Kowalmistrz 10:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Omajgot, przeciez jestes Polakiem. Sorry. W Polityce jest fajny art. o niej. Pozdrawiam w j. ojczystym :] Kowalmistrz 10:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Dziękuję za wiadomości! I think I read somewhere that a member of one of the Skarbek branches (apparently not Krystyna Skarbek's) in the 19th century requested, and obtained from the Austrian court, confirmation of the title for his branch.

In fact, it's my understanding that all the aristocratic titles sported by Polish-Lithuanian magnates and grandees — as opposed to ordinary patents of nobility — were bestowed by foreign courts. logologist|Talk 05:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Birthplace; Date of birth/Age at death: Math no worky

Could anyone confirm her birthplace? Currently the place mentioned in the article does not seem Polish at all. Was it Młodzieszyn? Halibutt 17:25, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

1952-1915=37, yet the article goes on to say she was 44. TJSwoboda (talk) 16:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

• She was born not in 1915, but 1908, and not in Młodzieszyn, but in Warsaw. Młodzieszyn was her place of early life, but not birthplace. See: Madelaine Masson, "Krystyna. Ulubiona agentka Churchilla"; info about this book (dated 20007-10-29):

  urodziła się 1 maja 1908 w Warszawie

  source: www.eduskrypt.pl
  Julo (talk) 06:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Colorized photo

It's good that the "Krystyna Skarbek" article now again includes a photo of its subject. This photo, however, would appear to be a colorized and slightly cropped version of the black-and-white photo opposite p. 27 in Madeleine Masson's 1975 book, Christine: A Search for Christine Granville. The colors in our version are not convincing; a black-and-white original would be preferable. Nihil novi (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

data urodzenia

Krystyna Skarbek, urodziła się 1 maja 1908 r. w majątku Trzepnica, ok. 25 km na południe od Piotrkowa Trybunalskiego. W styczniu 1941 r. została aresztowana w Budapeszcie przez działające na Węgrzech gestapo, ale dzięki symulacji gruźlicy została wypuszczona. Wtedy Owen O'Malley, brytyjski ambasador, wystawił jej fałszywe dokumenty na nazwisko Christine Granville, ur. 1 maja 1915 r., odmładzając ją o siedem lat. Ta nowa legalizacyjna data przyjmowana jest przez wielu autorów i błędnie podawana w opracowaniach jako faktyczna data urodzenia Krystyny, taką też wyryto na jej nagrobku) źródło: Bezpłatny dodatek tygodnika Polityka, Pomocnik Historyczny, nr 4, 27 stycznia 2007. Artykuł "Mucha Jej Królewskiej Mości", Jan Larecki, str.22. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zielonabrama (talk • contribs) 12:29, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

that goes on the polish talk page 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:B0A9:BA09:8451:C9CE (talk) 22:07, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Birth year

Someone is incorrectly changing Krystyna Skarbek's birth year in the article from 1908 to 1915, without giving a justification on this talk page and in defiance of two well researched sources that are cited — recent books by Clare Mulley and Jan Larecki — which demonstrate that she was born in 1908. If this behavior continues, the article should be protected against such unwarranted interventions. Nihil novi (talk) 06:34, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Well better tell the Military channel who did a show on her that, they have her dying at age 37 in 1952. (The Secret War, first air 3-13-12) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.254.200 (talk) 08:14, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Please feel free to refer them to Mulley and Larecki. The show's producers were not familiar with these sources: the first came out after the show appeared; the second was published in Polish. Nihil novi (talk) 08:53, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I've provided some quotes from Mulley in lead footnotes. Nihil novi (talk) 10:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Ian Fleming

The affair with Ian Fleming is apparently fictitious, and McCormick's biography cannot be relied upon. See: http://jeremyduns.net/2011/02/24/licence-to-hoax/ Tanzeelat (talk) 12:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Half of the lead is devoted to this. I suggest to remove altogether the last paragraph of the lead section. Renato (talk) 05:42, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I concur. I've gone ahead and deleted this sensationalist misinformation. Nihil novi (talk) 08:32, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Nowicki's biography

I have removed the sentence "The process of how Krystyna Skarbek was recruited by the British Special Operations Executive (SOE) is told only in Ron Nowicki's biography of Christine Granville (THE ELUSIVE MADAME G, A LIFE OF CHRISTINE GRANVILLE). [pp. 34-44] None of the other English-language biographies have investigated this process." on the basis that it is not encyclopedic content. However someone may wish to check the reference and perhaps extract something that can be added to the article. 85.210.166.9 (talk) 13:01, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Claims about beauty are bollocks

Any claims about beauty, going out at bars, modelling, beauty contest and anything of that sort are complete bollocks, despite the numerous sources. The idea of female beauty is very modern. Contests didn't exist then. In one photo, she looks more man than woman! If Skarbek was alive (she would be 114!) she would instantly delete anything that said about beauty. This hoax is related to the Ian Fleming hoax, which says that she had an affair with Ian Fleming, who was inspired to write James Bond after her, with James Bond being inspired by Skarbek's spy side and the Bond girls after her alleged beauty side. 2620:0:861:10B:10:64:132:9 (talk) 11:19, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

This is bizarre, wildly off topic, and completely nonsensical (no, a lack of beauty pageants does not mean that beauty is some modern concept). 78.143.220.89 (talk) 03:31, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@2620:0:861:10B:10:64:132:9 a prime example why wikipedia is not a discussion forum, and why imvho certain things best are deleted instead of being left for years on a talk page. 46.15.112.90 (talk) 20:17, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Lacklustre Sources

There is a serious overreliance on the work of Clare Mulley, whose book published in 2012 provides practically every reference. Wikipedia articles should be scholarly, rather than some regurgitated summary of a particular author's book. 78.143.220.89 (talk) 03:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

The couple's first child, Andrzej (Andrew), took after the mother's side of the family.

In what way? How is this relevant to the topic? Should it be deleted? Jontel (talk) 06:04, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

assailant/murderer

"A fellow steward, Dennis Muldowney, defended her" a few lines later this is given as George Muldowney. I am not sure which is true, if someone with knowledge could correct this? 46.15.112.90 (talk) 20:18, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for raising the question. Two of Krystyna Skarbek's biographers, Madeleine Masson and Clare Mulley, give her murderer's name as Dennis George Muldowney.

At the first mention of him, in the "Postwar life" section, I have added "George" as his middle name. In the "Death and legacy" section, I have changed "George Muldowney" to "Dennis Muldowney".

Nihil novi (talk) 00:24, 4 October 2024 (UTC)