Talk:Kukiz'15

Kukiz'15 have strong anti-immigration platform, and today slogan "stop immigration" is the main topic of this organization. It should be added to their political platform.

https://www.facebook.com/KlubPoselskiKukiz15/videos/434148836787373/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.46.80.163 (talk) 12:44, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Political party

Kukiz '15 is not political party, it's just something that is called Komitet Wyborczy and I don't know how to translate it, google translation say it's called Election Committee but I don't know did is that correct. Sorry for bad English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.28.251.241 (talk) 15:26, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

@Autospark: Is it really a party? Does it have members apart from Kukiz himself? Does it have party structures? Some of its elected representatives are members of other parties – quite unusual if it is a real party. --RJFF (talk) 19:34, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I'll readily admit I may be wrong on this, and am in need of more English language sources! I defined it as a party in the de facto sense, as many political parties claim to be 'movements' for whatever reason, and it's not uncommon for parties to give space to other parties on their electoral lists. I'll change the article again accordingly until referencable evidence either way emerges.--Autospark (talk) 23:21, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Then again, there is an example of the Dutch Party of Freedom, a party with unusual or non-existent structures, with technically a single member, yet Wikipedia and political scholars recognise it as a political party. So I'm not sure that we should class Kukiz'15 as anything other than a party, unless it actually is an electoral alliance such as the United Left is/was.--Autospark (talk) 23:51, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Any political group which participates in elections is a party by definition. The Wikipedia article on political party reads that "[a] political party is an organization of people which seeks to achieve goals common to its members through the acquisition and exercise of political power": this definition definitely applies to Kukiz '15. A party can be organised or not. It may be even just a parliamentary group; parties emerged that way in England, Germany, Italy and, more recently, Estonia. Moreover, there are several examples of parties including people from other parties in their electoral slates or parliamentary groups; just think about the relationships between the Labour Party and the Co-operative Party in the United Kingdom, the African National Congress and the Communist Party in South Africa, Fidesz and the Christian Democratic People's Party in Hungary, the Union for a Popular Movement and the Radical Party (2002–2011) in France, the Democratic Party and the Radicals (2008–2013), Civic Platform and the Conservative People's Party (2001–2003) in Poland, and several examples from all around the world. --Checco (talk) 08:24, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

I know. But there are/were direct, individual members of Labour Party, direct members of ANC, direct members of Fidesz, direct members of UMP etc etc. The question is: Are there direct members of the "Kukiz Movement"? What kind of organisation is this anyway? For all I know (may be wrong), no organisation called "Kukiz Movement" even exists. There is a website with the domain ruchkukiza.pl (i.e. "Kukiz Movement"), but the only organisation linked to it is the "civic electoral committee Kukiz'15" which is just an ad-hoc body to field lists and run in one certain election. Don't get me wrong: this is not about being formalistic. I would never argue that Forza Italia or Five Star Movement were no parties just because they claim not to be. But in this case I don't just doubt if this formally is a party, I even doubt if this is a de facto party. We should not speculate but stick to reliable sources. Are there secondary sources to verify that the "Kukiz Movement" is considered to be a political party? --RJFF (talk) 15:35, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Kukiz`15 is formally an association that was established on 10th of December 2015. Pawel Kukiz is his chairman, other members of its board are listed on the Webpage www.ruchkukiza.pl 150.254.169.54 (talk) 13:10, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Anne Applebaum

I'm a bit concerned that we're putting so much emphasis (by including it in the lead) on the unsupported opinion of a single columnist, who is also of course the wife of someone who has been attacked quite forcefully by Kukiz'15 politicians. It feels WP:UNDUE. --RevivesDarks (talk) 23:18, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes I agree, but I think the not so coherent nature of the group should be more emphasised in the lead. NPalgan2 (talk) 23:23, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Foundation for Political, Economic and Social Research-published report cited in the lead (see their wikipedia article) may not be RS, even if the chapter author is a reputable academic. NPalgan2 (talk) 23:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)