Talk:L'Orfeo/Archive 1

Archive 1

"Mistaken"

I took out a rather critical word --"mistaken" in this context: "This idea of theatrical works set to music was taken from the mistaken notion that the Ancient Greeks had sung their plays." There is conflicting evidence on this matter, but it is quite clear that at least some of the action in Ancient Greek plays was sung. A tantalizing scrap of manuscript of Euripides from Alexandria, I think 200s BCE, has music notation for every word. It is true that the Florentine Camerata thought that the plays were sung, and opera was an attempt to recreate that. Antandrus 02:41, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Orchestration

There's a lot of misinformation here regarding orchestration. Viole da braccio are not members of the old viol family, they're the original members of the violin family that includes violas (the original alto violins), tenor violins (pitched an octave below the violin), and bass violins (the direct precursor to the cello). The use of these instruments corresponds to the clefs noted in the score. I don't know where you got 15 violins and two violas--the score calls for two violins, alto, tenor, and bass violin, and the indication "dieci viole da brazzo" tells us that each of these parts was doubled in the original production. The violini piccioli alla francese were just that--piccolo violins, also known as kits, commonly used in dance bands from the sixteenth century onwards--you can still find them in parts of England and rural France. It's tuned a minor third higher than an ordinary violin and was most famously used in Bach's first Brandenburg Concerto. Since they're only called for in one place in the second act divorced from the other strings, they were presumably played as doubling instruments by two of the viole de brazzo players, which is probably also the case with the "tre bassi da gamba", which are called for specifically only in the choruses that end the third and fourth acts in which none of the other viole de brazzi are played. Together with the two contrabassi, then, that would make for a total of twelve string players playing 17 instruments. The regal is a reed organ with a snarling sound that's like a cross between a Laotion mouth organ and an accordion, frequently associated with images of the underworld in early Baroque music. The flutes you refer to are recorders; two soprano (descant) recorders are required in the second act, and one sopranino (flautino) is required in the first act. They may well have been played by the same musicians who played the cornetti, which are wooden instruments fingered like a recorder but with a tiny mouthpiece to be buzzed into like a brass instrument. Since the five trumpeters needed for the toccata could presumably also play sackbut (trombone), that means we have an orchestra of 25 players: 12 strings, two cornetti/recorders, five trumpets/trombones, two keyboard players playing harpsichord, organ and regal, three lutenists, and harp. Of course, this is somewhat speculative, but the point being is that the daunting number of instruments listed in the score does not reflect the number of players, who were as versatile then as Broadway musicians are today.````

You sound like a knowledgeable person - why don't you edit the article to correct the information there, citing your source(s) for the above in the References section. And, BTW, the way to sign your post on Talk pages is with four tildes (this symbol: ~), not four "open single quotes" (this symbol: `) as above. Better still, get a username and join the Opera Project or the Classical Music Project. Leave a message on my Talk Page if you want more info. --GuillaumeTell 17:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The above is largely correct, but I'd like to point out why I am not certain about some of it, and at present would avoid putting it in the article. It is not possible as far as I can see to figure out from the score alone the exact numbers of each type of viola da braccio included in the "ten" listed. While "Vi ricorda o bosch'ombrosi" (which has SSATB instrumental parts and calls only for "cinque Viole da braccio" plus continuo) easily allows you to infer the presence of at least two soprano instruments, one alto, one tenor and one bass (the bass is mentioned in other places as well) "diece viole da brazzo" on its own does not conclusively imply that each part was doubled. If someone noteworthy has published that assertion, fine, but we can't make it on our own.

Second, the assertion about musicians doubling on several instruments is probably correct, as I see it, but my own opinion doesn't really belong in the article. We can point out what's actually in the score (such as the violini piccoli only being used once), but we can't draw any conclusions of our own from that. That's WP:OR. It's an interesting topic, and if sources can be cited, I would love to have it in the article, but as of yet, we cannot talk about it. EldKatt (Talk) 13:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Arpa doppia

The article describes the specified arpa doppia as "a [diatonic?] harp with two sets of strings.", which agrees with the description in the Harp article. However, I've always assumed that a chromatic harp of some sort was desired, and if I recall correctly the written harp part (in "Possente spirto") requires it. I'm not aware of a single recording that uses a diatonic harp. Anyone able to clarify? EldKatt (Talk) 11:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Merging "Tu se' morta" into this article

Someone tagged the article for merging, and since I created the article in the first place and agree with the merge, I'll just do so now. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 03:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Orfeo instrumentation resource for WP editors

As a convenient reference in editing this page, I have condensed all the instrumentation directions present in the score into a single list, at User:EldKatt/L'Orfeo. The parts of the article that mention such issues need plenty of work, and going through the entire score for information is tedious, so I hope this will be of some use to other editors. EldKatt (Talk) 23:15, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Orpheus Remix Project

I'm a newbie so don't know if this would be at all suitable for inclusion in the L'Orfeo page, but the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation, a Govt-funded TV and Radio broadcaster) is currently running a competition that solicits entrants to create a 4-minute audio work as a commentary on Opera and radio, and on the Orpheus myth, using one or more of five samples taken from Pinchgut Opera's performance of L'Orfeo. The project is at http://www.abc.net.au/classic/orpheus/ where links to the entries can be found. The competition is currently in voting mode, so I do not know if the pieces will remain on that site permanently after the competition is over. I have no idea if this qualifies as a "references in popular culture" item or not. Feel free to just revert this edit with a note to say not relevant if that's the case. (Disclosure: I am not affiliated with the ABC (other than by being a tax-payer), but am an entrant of the competition) AshleyGittins (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1