Talk:Léon M'ba

Latest comment: 8 years ago by Cyberbot II in topic External links modified
Former good article nomineeLéon M'ba was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 6, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
September 7, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
March 9, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Translation problems

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Hi, this is User:Editorofthewiki from the Editorofthewiki/Nishkid alliance who are trying to conquer this article's translation. Could someone translate this: "Intimidés, trois députés UDSG rejoignent la majorité gouvernementale représentant désormais 32 députés sur 40 [ 35 ] ." I am very bad at French and this would be helpful. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 23:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Léon M'ba/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi, I'll be reviewing this article. The rules for GA reviews are stated at Good Article criteria. I usually do reviews in the order: coverage; structure; detailed walk-through of sections (refs, prose, other details); images (after the text content is stable); lead (ditto). Feel free to respond to my comments under each one, and please sign each response, so that it's clear who said what.

When an issue is resolved, I'll mark it with   Done. If I think an issue remains unresolved after responses / changes by the editor(s), I'll mark it   Not done. Occasionally I decide one of my comments is off-target, and strike it out

Sources & refs

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  • (just a comment) I'll have to WP:AGF on most of the refs, as almost all are books I don't have, many in French. That also means I have to AGF on the neutrality of these sources and of the selection of content from them.
  •   Done Wikipedia:V#Non-English_sources says " Where editors translate any direct quote, they should quote the relevant portion of the original, non-English text in a footnote or in the article. Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors." Please add the original text to the refs for all translated quotations. --00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

--00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Coverage

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Re where to place it, I think you have 2 options: (a) a separate Assessment section, which is what I use in chess bios (see e.g. Wilhelm Steinitz or Emanuel Lasker); (b) insert individual points from the source at relevent points from the bio, e.g. (hypothetically) "this inciodent showed that he was a puppet".
Are you arguing that Reed's comments are not useful? If so, why are they not useful? Unless you can make out a very strong case, omitting them is a violation of WP:NPOV. I suggest you read Reed thoroughly and see whether he provides any explanations, and that you look for other sources that comment on M'ba's period in office. --Philcha (talk) 07:46, 16 February 2009 (UTC)Reply


Early life

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  • His mother's name, Louise Bendome, looks French rather than African. Is there a reason for this? --Philcha (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • Can you please explain "evolved couples". --Philcha (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • What was the name of Léon M'ba's brother the priest? Did he achieve any senior rank in the chrch? --Philcha (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • Re "In 1909, M'ba joined a seminary to receive his primary education", I think "joined a seminary" would normally imply "to study for the priesthood", which would have been remarkable for a 7-year old. Do you mean the seminary had an attached elementary school, in which M'ba studied? --Philcha (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • The 2nd half of the translated quote "If on the one hand, the fundamental duty of educating the Fangs ... the first legitimization of the French authority on them" looks stilted in English and may be difficult for some readers to understand. Can you please re-phrase it? --Philcha (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • The lead says "he was issued a prison sentence after committing a minor crime that normally would have resulted in a small fine", while this section says nothing about a small fine. You can't introduce any content in the lead that is not in the text. --Philcha (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

Chef de canton

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Exile in Oubangui-Chari

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Return to Gabon and local politician

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Rise to power

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  • "Though not elected, M'ba became the leader of the indigenous territory, and some of the UDSG began to ally themselves with him" - what "indigenous territory"? How did he become the leader if not elected? --Philcha (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • "forester's man" may be unclear to many readers, I suggest "reprentative of the logging industry". --Philcha (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • "bribed several UDSG deputies to switch their political party to the BDG" - "switch to the BDG" would be better, as we already known it's about parties. --Philcha (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
  • "both parties were obliged to submit on 21 May 1957, a list of individuals that both agreed were suitable for election into the government" - obliged by whom? Who decided how many of each party's nominees were appointed?
  • "giving the party a majority with 29 of the 40 legislative seats" - "giving the BDG 29 of the 40 seats" would be better. --Philcha (talk)
  • "Well installed in the government" - "Now in control of the government"? --Philcha (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

Images

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Overall impression

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I've paused the detailed review half way through "Rise to power". The article currently has serious problems:

  • Gaps in coverage and possible lack of WP:NPOV noted above.
  • Many failures to explain thing that are obvious only to experts in French colonial Africa.
  • A whole lot of poor writing that is unclear and / or clumsy. A lot of it reads like over-literal translations form the French sources.
  • Where translated quotes are given, you must provide a copy of the original. --Philcha (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

Since I don't like quick-fails, I'm placing the review "on hold", which means you have a week to fix the whole article, not just what I've commented on so far. That's a lot of work and it's only fair to tell you that I doubt whether you can achieve it in a week. --Philcha (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

I suggest you read through some GAs and FAs on major politicians. At present there are none on African ones, and very few on others in ex-colonies. For English WP at least, articles on politicans in ex-colonies are more difficult than on "western" countries, as you need to explain much more of the background and to deal with issues like tribal politics, whether the colonial power manipulated the emerging political system, whether the country truly became independent, problems that ex-colonies' governments face (lack of money, lack of experienced politicians and adminstrators, customary behaviours that place loyalty to family and allies above honesty and fairness, etc.). --Philcha (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

Result of review

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Your message to me implied that I should mark this as a "fail", and that's what I'm doing. As you requested, I've provided some comments on Hubert Maga, and hope they will be useful for Léon M'ba too. Best wishes, --Philcha (talk) 10:25, 9 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

- - - - - please add review comments /responses above this line - - - - -
If you want to start a new section of the Talk page while this review is still here, edit the whole page, i.e.use the "edit" link at the top of the page.

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