Talk:LGBTQ rights in Israel

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2018 and 4 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Noah07132013.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Khadija williams.

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citation needed?

I removed the "fact" template, as I believe that it is quite clear from the information in the article that Israel ranks among the very few countries in the world that offer such an array of LGBT rights, including extensive anti-discrimination laws, registration of married status and adoption rights for same-sex couples. Aviad2001 18:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the article is indeed written to give that impression. Examples: "Unlike many other democratic nations" (like what?), "half of the gay soldiers were found to be harassed during their army duty" (the right to be harassed?), gay sex was only made legal in 1988 (compared to for instance 1944 in Sweden), employment discrimantion is still legal in some cases and was only made illegal in 1992 (compared to 1987 for Sweden), gay couples are not allowed to adopt (unless it's their partner's child (or they are vultures)), also the issue about marriage/registered partnership seems a bit unclear. // Liftarn

Well, the dates those rights were introduced are irrelevant, as the disputed sentence is in the present tense; gay marriage from abroad is recognized (unlike in Sweden) and anyway unmarried, co-habiting couples are treated as married couples in every respect. That gay soldiers are harrassed (I wasn't, BTW) is also irrelevant to the legal status of gays and lesbians - it's obviously illegal - and anyway cannot be compared with other countries, unless you happen to know of a similar study conducted elsewhere. Also, the disputed sentence talks about Isreal being "one of the most tolerant", not "more tolerant than Sweden" or "The world's most tolerant ever" or anything of the sort. I doubt that you'll be able to come up with more than a handfull of countries with better LGBT rights, and therefore the sentence is correct. Aviad2001 13:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

"onw of the top ten most tolerant"... Or whatever. It still needs a source. If none is provided then just remove it and let the facts speak for themselves. // Liftarn

The page claims that "Israel was the first country in Asia where homosexuals were protected by anti-discrimination laws" with the source being http://www.chinapost.com.tw/news/archives/taiwan/200755/108825.htm . The problem of this is that (a) this article doesn't talk about which Asian country was first to enact such laws, (b) it does not talk about Israel and (c) the fact that Israel is the first country can easily be disputed; and rightfully so, since so many other Asian countries had such laws prior to Israel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinnygold (talk • contribs) 21:05, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Well I dunno about anti-discrimination laws, I would like to see a source (here and on other pages about LGBT rights) about the dates that countries adopted anti-discrimation laws against gays compared. Of course since most anti-sodomy laws are of European origin (much of Africa and Asia only adopted them under European influence, as is the case with Japan, for example), the issue is also decontextualised. Vietnam never criminalised homosexual sex, but Israel did at one point, and yet this article makes it look as if Israel is ahead of Vietnam when the issue is not so cut and dry. I recognise that articles on countries try to talk about their successes rather than failures, but since this article tries to compare Israel to other countries, we should try to do so a bit more objectively (not so much of this "the best" or "the only" in "the Middle East" or "Asia" (neither of which are strictly defined places). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.175.223.78 (talk) 21:12, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Orthodox Jewish antigay groups?

I'm curious about the role of antigay Orthodox Jewish groups in opposing LGBT rights in Israel. Could someone add a brief passage on such organisations, their major figures, and whether or not they liaise with any other antigay Orthodox Jews outside the United States? User Calibanu 11.44, 14 July 2007.

Well, anti-gay groups per se don't really exist in Israel. Most of the virulent homophobic rhetoric comes from orthodox (mostly ultra-orthodox) community leaders, Knesset members etc., but a dedicated anti-gay group, to my best knowledge, does not exist. Interestingly, though maybe not surprisingly, homophobic rhetoric is a relatively recent phenomenon, and closely related to the rise in LGBT visibility and acrivism. There is one orthodox organization called "Atzat Nefesh" which purports to "cure" homosexuality (as well as masturbation of any persuasion), but as a rule they actually abstain from "that" sort of rhetoric. Aviad2001 20:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Palestinian Issues

I removed the following two paragraphs from the page due to their irrelevance and unencyclopedic language. Thought I would save them here.

The 2005 documentary, Zero Degrees of Separation, looks at the situation with greater complexity as it examines the lives of Ezra Yitzhak, an Israeli, and his partner Fuad, a Palestinian. What most mainstream media fails to mention and is beautifully illuminated in this film, is that as a result of the Intifada, most Palestinian young gay men who might once have had permits to reside or work in Israel, have had them revoked (http://www.medea.be/index.html?page=2&lang=en&doc=284). And so while Israeli laws are progressive for all Israeli gays and lesbians (Arab, Jewish or otherwise), they remain exclusive to that group. A Jewish or Arab Israeli with a Palestinian partner who does not have a permit to live in Israel will never receive that right, regardless of their relationship status. This is true for straights who are common-law or married as well. (http://www.btselem.org/English/Family_Separation/Index.asp)

The 2006 movie The Bubble (הבועה) by Eytan Fox touches on the complicated situation of a gay Palestinian man who attempts to live within Israel in Tel Aviv with his Jewish lover. Like many Palestinian gays and lesbians, he is persecuted for being gay in Palestine and risks prosecution for being resident in Israel illegally. While the movie is not a true story, the story is a reality for many gay and lesbian Palestinians.

Rudy Breteler (talk) 01:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Taiwan the other Asian country

In one edit that I later undid and then redid with updated info, I only had enough room in my summary to say "Taiwan? Not so." I wanted to type "Taiwan? Not to my knowledge." I've redone that part to reflect Taiwan's non-discrimination laws, and changed it to reflect the correct year, 2007, not 2001.

Homoaffectional (talk) 03:38, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Same-sex couples in Israel can now adopt children not biologically linked to them. Seems worth mentioning. http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1041841520080210 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.167.101 (talk) 23:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

LGBT > LGBTQ

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:32, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

LGBT rights in Israel → LGBTQ Rights in Israel – - The LGBT community has added a Q, so pages like this should be moved.— Supuhstar * § 18:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONAME and I propose a Speedy close. First you have to debate and convince a move of the article LGBT towards LGBTQ. Then we can move all related articles. Flamarande (talk) 20:56, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose until LGBT is renamed. As the base article of the topic, all articles with this in the name should use the name of that article. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:06, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Health Insurance?

There is no mention in the article about whether or not same sex partners of Israeli citizens have the same access to health insurance (including premiums) as citizens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tzadikv (talk • contribs) 17:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Question not clear. Since 1/1/1995 there is a national health care law in affect In Israel. This law is for all Israeli citizens and legal residents (even if they are not citizens). Wirecorm (talk) 19:49, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

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"Pinkwashing" Hasbara

The pinkwashing section of this article (as just one example) has several sneaky biases which merit comment. Wikipedia articles are biased towards Israel (often outrageously so) because Wikipedia is the target of a great deal of Hasbara activity. Most people give up trying to remedy this because the Hasbara activity is so well resourced. First off, why is "Pinkwashing" in quotation marks. Any section on wikipedia could be portrayed as opinion so why are all sections on all articles not also in quotation marks. Statements criticising Israeli pinkwashing are qualified with words such as "claims" and "negative stereotypes". Criticisms of Israel are interspersed with pro-Israel narratives which are not qualified as "claims" or "stereotypes". Worse still, Alan Dershowitz - whose pro-Israel advocacy is hypocritical and rife with logical fallacies and double standards - is allowed to condemn critics of Israel's pinkwashing as anti-semites and bigots and claim that only gay radicals consider Israel to be engaged in pinkwashing. As usual these biases occur mostly within the rules of wikipedia as Israeli govt employees are sophisticated at doing this. Furthermore they're paid to edit Wikipedia as their job, so normal people who can't spend all day countering this activity tend to just give up. 121.73.7.84 (talk) 17:18, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

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Blackmailing

According to different sources, some Palestinians are threatened to be exposed to their families as homosexuals and send back to their families, where they will be tortured and killed. Unless they are willing to work as informants. They are furthermore monitorized. That should be part of the Palestinian section I think.--APS^talk 19:17, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

References

Shift in acceptance of LGBT politics; Pinkwashing

This article, specifically the "Politics" section, contains many facts about different views from different politicians over the last twenty years, but there is not a proper history that details how LGBT rights grew in Israel. One of the major events in recent years that impacted the LGBT community in Israel, the 2009 Tel Aviv gay centre shooting, is not mentioned once in the article. This incident, which sparked an immense public reaction from Israeli citizens and politicians alike, created a shift in how the LGBT community is received and treated in Israel. It was soon after that that Israel began to promote its acceptance of LGBT rights. While this article has a lot of important information regarding its laws and culture, there is no definitive history of how these laws and cultures shifted in favor for the LGBT population in Israel. The information I am going to use to add to this article is from Columbia Human Rights Law Review and written in 2015. The author, Aeyal Gross, is a law professor at Tel Aviv University. She has written for a wide variety of law journals across the world, and has written about LGBT rights and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict respectively. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page. Noah07132013 (talk) 19:28, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Noah07132013, adding the 2009 shooting is a good idea. The rest of what you write seems to be more a critique than a suggestion of what you will do to fix it. You write twice that the article lacks a history; are you going to add that history (aside from the 2009 shooting)? That sounds promising; but what will you add to lay out that history? Also, the title of your Talk Page section says "pinkwashing" but nothing in your blurb says what you intend to write about pinkwashing. Your source sounds trustworthy but Aeyal Gross is a man not a woman.Chapmansh (talk) 23:24, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Israel's LGBT rights are the most developed in the Middle East

Does taiwan can change legal gender without surgery like Israel? Does taiwan can Joint adoption like Israel? Does taiwan can use IVF service like Israel? Does taiwan can donate blood like Israel without following five years of abstinence from sex? Does taiwan recognize same-sex marriage abroad like Israel?--S59112024 (talk) 09:36, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

The Tragic Story of Israel’s First Trans Woman

For 67 years, key documents in the history of the Israeli LGBTQ community were tucked away in the country’s state archives. In 1954, Israel's Attorney General prevented Rina Natan from gender reassignment surgery. The story later took a surprisingly positive turn. Haaretz, Link. Sorry, not sure what would be best way to include in article, so I leave the info here for you. --Jensbest (talk) 18:58, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

blood donation

blood donation of msm is allowed since 2017, not 2021 as Nitzan Horowitz claims. Under some circumstances, it was allowed even before that. What Nitzan did was changing the wording in the official papers to still refer to MSM blood donation, that as mentioned, was allowed since 2017, when Benjamin Netanyahu was the minister of health. 2A00:A040:194:6396:D977:59A1:9072:2762 (talk) 08:48, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

blood donation

blood donation of msm is allowed since 2017, not 2021 as Nitzan Horowitz claims. Under some circumstances, it was allowed even before that. What Nitzan did was changing the wording in the official papers to still refer to MSM blood donation, that as mentioned, was allowed since 2017, when Benjamin Netanyahu was the minister of health. 2A00:A040:194:6396:D977:59A1:9072:2762 (talk) 08:49, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Missing Court Documents on Wayback Machine

As of 5:26PM UTC on 20 April 2024, all Wayback Machine captures for the 2006 Israeli Supreme Court ruling on civil unions (allowing their registration, but not their recognition) seem to have either been removed or had access denied. The original link is identically denied access. Either there is a systemic error with Israeli government pages on the Wayback Machine's end, or there was a takedown request. Regardless, the access to the official document seems to have been removed from official sources and the Wayback Machine. I attempted to find the site using both .htm and .html endings on the archive as well as the original, but was unsuccessful.

References

References

• https://web.archive.org/web/20210225210605/https://elyon1.court.gov.il/files_eng/05/450/030/a09/05030450.a09.htm
• https://elyon1.court.gov.il/files_eng/05/450/030/a09/05030450.a09.html

KieraMedic1701 (talk) 17:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

they almost lynched bruno

After viewing the scene where ultraorthodox jews trying to lynch bruno in jerusalem, I don't think I'd ever feel safe to visit Israel. 79.166.20.239 (talk) 15:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)