Talk:Lady Joan Fitzgerald

Family tree?

Dear wikipedians User:Jeanne boleyn, User:Manannan67, and User:Pageturners (the three most foremost authors of the article Lady Joan Fitzgerald), or any other editor or reader who cares. The biographical subject has by her marriages important relations with well-known members of the Desmond and Ormond families. I wonder whether these relations should not be illustrated in form of a family tree (in the style of the one on James Butler, 9th Earl of Ormond). Should you agree (or at least not object), I would be pleased to add one. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 13:51, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I wouldn't object. Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:22, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Go for it. Manannan67 (talk) 18:12, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Knock yourself out! Pageturners (talk) 12:01, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Citations

Dear wikipedians User:Jeanne boleyn and User:Manannan67. Thank you very much for allowing me to add a family tree. I am busy doing so. I also need to add corresponding supporting citations for the tree. You are the editors who have added the 14 existing citations, which come from 4 sources: Fraser (book), Emerson (book), Holland (Ph.D.), and Kirwan (journal). I find that the given descriptions are sometimes a bit too informal and not always sufficient. For Emerson and Holland, page numbers are missing in most cases. I would like to change the citation style to use "short" descriptions in the text ({{Sfn}}) and "long" ones using templates (e.g. {{Cite book}}) in a list of sources. According to WP:CITEVAR I formally ask your permission. In hope of further good collaboration, with thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 09:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

• I agree that most of the citations appear to be relatively useless. I'm not sure that Emerson counts as RS. Perhaps you could hold off for a bit while I look for better sources. (I don't generally care for the short list followed by a long one, since it makes the reader check two; I prefer the complete cite and sfn for any following, but that's just me.) Very nice Family tree. Manannan67 (talk) 16:37, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Dear User:Manannan67 Thank you for your intelligent remark. I do understand what you say. The secret is to use Sfn with an URL in the p (or pp) parameter, thus: {{Sfn|Burke|1866|pp=[https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_K3MaAAAAYAAJ/page/n223/ 205–206]}} – of course that works only when you have a URL, but I believe articles should mainly cite sources available on the Internet whenever possible. With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 05:33, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Change citation style (2nd attempt)

Dear wikipedians User:Jeanne boleyn, User:Manannan67, User:Llammakey, User:Mannanan51, User:Laurel Lodged, User:Pageturners. You are the article's major contributors. I would like to change the citation style to use "short" descriptions in the text ({{Sfn}}) and "long" ones using templates (e.g. {{Cite book}}) in a list of sources. As prescribed in WP:CITEVAR I formally ask your permission. I have asked that question already once before and was told to hold off for a bit, which I did. I therefore repeat my request. If nobody replies within a month, I will go ahead with the change. In hope of further good collaboration, with thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 14:18, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Go for it. Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:31, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I see no problem; (and appreciate your checking, as opposed to some who just go changing citation style to whatever they prefer). Manannan67 (talk) 03:39, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Work away, and thanks for your trouble in doing this. Pageturners (talk) 17:41, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Born at Desmond Castle Kinsale?

Dear concerned wikipedians Jeanne boleyn, Manannan67, Llammakey, Mannanan51, Laurel Lodged, Pageturners, Boleyn, Colin Ryan and others; as well as general experts in all things Irish Ceoil, Chrisdoyleorwell, Guliolopez, Mabuska, Scolaire, SeoR, Smirkybec and others, last not least anybody else able to help.

This article maintains since 14 January 2010 (for more than 12 years) here that Joan was born in Desmond Castle (Kinsale). Two references were added on 15 January here. However, it is not clear whether these references are meant to support the birth place of the two alternative birth dates. The references are: "Antonia Fraser, The Wives of Henry VIII, pp.121-124" and "Karen Ann Holland, Joan Desmond, Ormond and Ossory: The World of a Countess in Sixteenth-Century Ireland, Providence College, 1 January 1996, retrieved on 14-01-10". As far has I have been able to access the content, neither source mentions the Desmomd Castle of Kinsale, nor does any other source that I came across mention that Joan was born in Kinsale. In 2018 an image of the Desmond Castle in Kinsale was added as the article's only image giving prominance to the place of birth..

After considerable time spent on trying to improve the article, I have come to doubt the truth of the statement. Could anybody help, please. In case of silence I will remove the statement and the corresonding illustration as not being verifiable, with many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 09:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:45, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Remove if in doubt. Ceoil (talk) 10:23, 12 May 2022 (UTC)