Talk:Lahaina Gateway/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: KJP1 (talk · contribs) 16:41, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Pleased to pick this up and sorry for the lengthy wait. I'll complete the review within the next three days. KJP1 (talk) 16:41, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it took a bit less time than I thought. I've put the article on hold and suggestions/comments are within the review. I appreciate you're on vacation, so just ping me here, or on my Talkpage, when you're back. Regards. KJP1 (talk) 22:25, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Quick fail criteria assessment

1. The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.

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2. The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.

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3. There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.

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4. The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.

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5. The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.

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All good. Main review to follow. KJP1 (talk) 16:47, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Main review

1. It is reasonably well written.

a (prose):

The standard of prose is good and I will Pass on this criterion, subject to review of the suggestions below.

Lede

• It is referred to as a "lifestyle center" and a "shopping mall" in the space of 9 words. Given that the two are different, and have different Wikipedia articles, shouldn't we decide which it is? I'm no shopping expert, but I read "lifestyle center" as a shopping mall with add-ons, food outlets, bowling alley, etc. Has Lahaina got any of the latter, following the closure of The Melting Pot? If it hasn't, isn't it just a mall?

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

• "encompasses approximately 137,000 square feet" - isn't encompasses a, slightly longer, version of "covers"?

True. I revised. Carbrera (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

• "The mall has been managed and owned by various companies, and the mall itself has been in foreclosure on two separate occasions" - you use "mall" twice in 12 words and is the "separate" necessary? How about, "The mall has been managed and owned by various companies and has twice been in foreclosure."

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

• "some of the buildings' facades featuring stucco accents" - are we talking of the facades of one building, or the facades of a number of buildings? If the former, then the apostrophe's in the wrong place.

A number of buildings, so the latter. Carbrera (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

Background

• First, this section's longer than the main section about the mall. Is it a bit too detailed? See suggestions below. Also, the second paragraph about "events", which may contribute to its lifestyle center claim, doesn't appear to me to be "Background". Would that para. sit better in the next?

Personally, I believe it fits well as is. However, I did add an "Event" subtitle to the section, which I hope will make more sense. What do you think? Carbrera (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "acquired the center (which had gone into foreclosure) in 2011" - why have we brackets here, rather than commas?

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "TNP CEO Anthony W. "Tony" Thompson" - that's quite a mouthful! And one acronym following another is a bit clumsy. Could he not be, "TNP Chief Executive Anthony Thompson"?

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "news of foreclosure drew significant demand to leasing at the center" - not sure this is clear, or supported by the citation. I don't think "Tony" (I'm a mate!) is saying that "foreclosure drew", i.e. attracted, demand, I think he's just said it followed TNP's purchase. And I think it's demand for leasing, not to.

Revised – hopefully it sounds better now! The way I originally worded it was, without a doubt, confusing! Carbrera (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "the center went into foreclosure again, which allowed competitor Strategic Retail Trust to become the new owner of the mall a year after Central Pacific Bank attained the center" - a few things here. Who is SRT the competitor of? I assume it's TNP but it's not clear. And what's CPB doing "attaining" the center? And why do we have "center" twice again? I'd suggest something like, "In November 2012 the center went into foreclosure again, and was purchased by TNP's rival, Strategic Retail Trust, from TNP's backers, the Central Pacific Bank."

Revised – I removed competitor in hopes to make things more clear and reworded it to what you had suggested. Carbrera (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "Lahaina Gateway is currently managed by The Festival Companies, according to their official website." Whose website, Lahaina's or TFC's? And it's a dead link (see below).

Revised – archived URLs. Carbrera (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "throughout the years" - "over the years"? Or, if that's a bit colloquial, "since its construction"?

Revised using the latter suggestion. Carbrera (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

• "Pineapples & Pumpkins" - I'd italicise this, rather than quote it, thus, Pineapples & Pumpkins.

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC).

• "the annual Wiki Wiki Run runs near the shopping center" - does the Run have to run? It's a little clumsy. How about "the annual Wiki Wiki Run takes place near the shopping center"?

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC).

Design and tenants

• "some of the structures use stucco on their exterior appearance" - it sounds like they're applying makeup! Can't it just be "on their exteriors"? Or on their "external facades"?

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC).

• "a clothing store for women;" - I think a comma, rather than a semi-colon, would be fine.

Revised (in a different way than suggested). Carbrera (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC).

• "the history of horses and Hawaiian culture" - the history of horses in Hawaiian culture? Or was it doing two things, a history of horses worldwide and, quite separately, Hawaiian culture? If the latter, why was it linking the two?

Revised – fixed from comment below. Carbrera (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC).

• "a fondue-centered restaurant" - does this differ from a fondue restaurant? It sounds like it would have a big vat of cheese in the middle of the room.

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC).

b (MoS):

• I believe it meets the MoS Criteria.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (references)

• Links 2a, 2b, 3 and 7 are dead and will need replacing.

b (citations to reliable sources):

A couple of points re. citations, as follows:

Background

• "becoming the largest shopping center in western Maui." - I think this needs a citation.

Revised – It looks like Western Partitions changed URLs a while back so that's why it came up as a dead link; I updated the ref and added it here. Carbrera (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "The mall was developed by Western Partitions, Inc. with Kiewit Construction serving as its contractor." - Citation for this as well.

Revised – I added the sources to back this claim up. I'm unsure why they weren't here to begin with. Carbrera (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "for approximately $32 million USD" - I can't see the $32M in the source.

Revised – added additional source. Carbrera (talk) 06:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC).

• "roughly half of the property's estimated worth" - the source, which does give the $32M figure, doesn't appear to support the claim that this was half the estimated worth.

Revised – I can't find anything regarding this in any of the source so I just removed it. Carbrera (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

• "a classic car show that took place in March 2015." - This has two cites while other, important details, "largest" etc., have none. Overkill on the former, I'd suggest.

Revised – I removed the first citation for this piece and kept the second one; I agree with you. Carbrera (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

Design and tenants

• "largest Barnes & Noble location in Hawaii" - Source 3 is dead and 15 doesn't support the claim that the store is the largest B&N in Hawaii.

Revised – updated URL and removed that other URL. I have no clue why that was there – what was I thinking? Carbrera (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

• "the history of horses and Hawaiian culture" - see above. Reading Source 17, I think it's the history of horses in Hawaiian culture.

Revised. Carbrera (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

c (OR):

• I see no evidence of Original Research.

d (No evidence of plagiarism or copyright violations):

• The Copyvio Tool comes up 0% and I don't see any evidence of too close paraphrasing of sources.

3. It is broad in its scope

a (major aspects)

• I think it's as broad as it can be. It's a shopping mall, less than 10 years old, which has had a bumpy financial ride. I think these core details are covered.

b (focused):

• It doesn't stray from the key focus of the article.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy

• The article presents a balanced view of the development's troubled past and present.

5. It is stable

• The article is Stable.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):

• There is a perfectly serviceable image in the infobox, but the article could be improved by one or two more. I think architecture articles always benefit from pictures, but it's not a grounds to fail the article under the criteria.

b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

• The infobox photo meets the crtieria.

7. Overall:

Pass/Fail:

KJP1 – thank you for the very thorough review. I'm going to be addressing these points over the next week, if that is all right with you. I appreciate the depth you put into this review. Regards, Carbrera (talk) 23:27, 21 July 2017 (UTC).

Carbrera - Absolutely fine. And no hurry, just ping me when you're done and I'll drop by to wrap it up. Everything looks eminently fixable to me, provided you can get replacements for the few dead cites. Hope you had a good vacation and the review was my pleasure. KJP1 (talk) 06:02, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

KJP1 – I believe I accomplished everything. Thank you again for the very thorough review. I nominated this quite awhile back so some updating and fact-checking was long overdue. Thanks so much, Carbrera (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).

Carbrera - Yep, it's looking good now. Many congratulations and sorry again that it took so long to get to the review stage. KJP1 (talk) 08:03, 29 July 2017 (UTC)