Talk:Lake Taupō

Can someone put in a geo.position spot roughly for Taupo?

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Use Taupo township (at the north end of the lake), which is 38.41S 176.7E

Stuartyeates 14:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Layout broken

The location pic seems to have broken the page layout, a lot of whitespace is showing between the second and third section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.118.190.86 (talk • contribs) .

Now fixed, at least in my browser. -- Avenue 08:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Apparently misplaced text on Taupo eruption

The text regarding the effects of a Taupo eruption on the Maori and Japanese cannot possibly refer to the Oruanui eruption since this took place some 26,500 years ago. I believe that this text should be moved to the paragraph discussing the 181 AD eruption . . . I would have performed this edit, but I couldn't locate corroborating support after a quick search this morning. Can someone else confirm that this text move is warranted?

Myasuda 13:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't confirm the Maori reference, but it is almost certainly untrue as the eruption was before recorded history, let alone the Maori arrival in NZ. I went ahead and removed the Japanese reference as it's irrelevant to the article anyway. --Tireoghain2 10:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Agree. --Bender235 21:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Date of last eruption (AD 181)?

What is the source for the date (AD 181) of the most recent eruption? And what is the range of uncertainty of the date? It seems to me that the evidence for this date ought to be cited in the article. Richwales 04:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe the latest date is 230 AD. I can't remember the specific evidence, but it was given in a talk by Dr Colin Wilson (of IGNS, who is one of the authorities on the TVZ). It is cited in a book on NZ volcanism by Bruce Hayward and Geoffrey Cox, and I know Dr Hayward would not give the date if he didn't have good reason to believe it. User: pkeestra, 18.20, 26 December 2006 NZT

I looked up this date; it is quoted in Sparks, R.J., Melhuish, W.H., McKee, J.W.A., Ogden, J., Palmer, J.G., Molloy, B.P.J. 1995. 14 C calibration in the Southern Hemisphere and the date of the last Taupo eruption: evidence from tree-ring sequences. Radiocarbon 37 (2): 155–163. User: pkeestra, 19.00, 26 December 2006 NZT

the dates on the page now show eg as "180 CE", not as "180 AD". Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.69.146 (talk) 21:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

CE is regarded more appropriate terminology. In any case the 180 CE date is no longer accepted with academic rigour in geological circles and appears to be related to a Northern hemisphere event as when postulated, the techniques did not exist to analyse the actual ice core ash deposit and relate it to other samples from volcano of interest each of which tends to have a unique signal. The New Zealand dating record is now used to date Antarctic icecores back to the the Oruanui eruption. ChaseKiwi (talk) 13:31, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

References

Presence of Eels within Lake Taupo

The reference to the presence of Short finned Eels in Lake Taupo is incorrect, and is fact one of the more unusual facts about the lake.

Nztayls 09:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

There are no eels in Lake Taupo, the reason for this is that eels need to go to the sea to spawn, and between Lake Taupo and the sea there are the Huka Falls, although adult eels would be able to go down these, the young eels returning from the sea would not be able to go back up them. User: tome23, 0943, 24 April 2007 NZT

Nitrate leaching into Lake Taupo

Perhaps a section should be introduced on the evidence collected by Doc,Environment Waikato etc, which shows that the clarity of the water has been getting steadily worse over time. The test involves dropping a white disk into the water until it cannot be seen. Nitrate leaching due to farming runoff has implications on the trout fishing industry where the numbers of smelt have been steadily decreasing along side the average size of Trout based on published Doc figures. --Zven (talk) 04:48, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

A couple of links that might be useful:

• http://www.ew.govt.nz/environmental-information/Environmental-indicators/Inland-water/Lakes/lake9-keypoints/
• http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/publications/all/wa/17-1/buoy

-- Avenue (talk) 13:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Lake Depth

Lake depth varies depending on source. I dont know where the depth used came from but other depths found at

• http://www.luxuryescapes.co.nz/taupo.html - 164m
• http://www.ilec.or.jp/database/oce/oce-01.html - 164m - International Lake Environment Committee
• http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/Site/publish/Journals/nzjgg/1995/42.aspx - 185m
• http://www.laketauponz.com/lifestyles/business/taupo-facts-figures.html - 164m
• http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/584374/Lake-Taupo - 159m

Gosh, which one to use.

Several sources do seem to cluster around 163-164 m. Here are a few more:

• http://www.mightyriverpower.co.nz/Generation/LakeLevels/LakeLevelGraphs/MRPTaupo.pdf - 162.8 m
• http://www.mfe.govt.nz/publications/ser/snapshot-lake-water-quality-nov06/html/page4.html - 163 m
• http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Gov01_09Rail-t1-body-d9.html - 534 ft (=162.76 m)

The last one dates back to 1927.

Some of the variation might be due to variation in lake levels — outflows are managed by Mighty River Power to keep the lake level within their resource consent limits of 355.85–367.25 m above sea level — or even the 0.5 m ground deformation that's been observed in recent decades from seismic unrest. But there's another depth near our current value of 186 m here: http://www.taupofortomorrow.co.nz/fishery/freshwater/lakes/ (186.84 m below chart datum of 355.85 m altitude), and anecdotal support here: http://www.minerals.co.nz/jago/press_releases.html. It seems that researchers were able to take a mini-submarine down to view geothermal vents at a depth of 184 m, in an area called "Les' Hole" - a deep spot discovered in the early 1990s by Deputy Harbourmaster Les Porter. This would explain why we have two groups of depth measurements, one around 163 m and the other around 186 m; the first group don't account for the recent discovery. So I think it's best to stick with our current figure, or something similar. It's probably worth addressing the discrepancy in a footnote, though. -- Avenue (talk) 14:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Also according to *http://www.ilec.or.jp/database/oce/oce-01.html total Length of shoreline is 153km not 193km as posted in the main page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.111.128.4 (talk) 22:51, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tgaguy (talk • contribs) 08:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Unlike depth, coastline length is not well defined (see coastline paradox), so I don't think we can expect complete agreement among sources. Here's another source giving a length for the littoral zone of 161 km.[1] -- Avenue (talk) 00:17, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

And another saying "over 170 km". -- Avenue (talk) 16:48, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Lake Taupō/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This article says that nobody was on New Zealand at the time of the eruption, stating that the Maori were the first inhabitants of the island. This is patently false, as much evidence exists, and is recorded in many books on the subject, that New Zealand was inhabited by other groups prior to the Maori, including the Moriori, celtic peoples, and others. One such source is found here: http://www.celticnz.co.nz/RaglanRamble.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.39.79 (talk • contribs) That is not widely accepted; see Māori#Origins, for instance. Talk:Māori would be a better place to discuss the issue. -- Avenue (talk) 00:39, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 00:39, 19 December 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 21:35, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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New Zealand Gazetteer

I note that according to the New Zealand Gazetteer, there is no official name for Lake Taupo. I suggest if anyone is keen to have the name changed to Lake Taupō, this should go through a formal move proposal. Schwede66 20:46, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

If the common name for the town is Taupō, I find it incredibly unlikely that the common name for the lake is not also Taupō. — HTGS (talk) 09:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I would be surprised, too. All I’m saying is that it won’t be uncontroversial. To avoid moving the article back and forth, a formal discussion should be had. Schwede66 16:11, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

The common name for the town (by any reasonable definition of the word "common") is still "Taupo". And the common name for the lake is still "Lake Taupo". But the reason why the (English-language) Wikipedia page for the town is titled "Taupō" is because of our WP:NCNZ policy, which states that if a place has a LINZ-official name, then that name is used, even if it's not the common name. The "Lake Taupo" page should be not be moved until LINZ makes "Lake Taupō" (or something else) the lake's 'official' name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.212.111 (talk) 15:29, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 26 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 19:26, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

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Lake Taupo → Lake Taupō – Initiating a move request per the above conversation to get input. Given that the settlement on the shores of the lake uses a macron (Taupō) and that the Māori names for the lake are Taupō-nui-a-Tia and Taupōmoana, it stands to reason that the name of the lake should also have a macron on the ō. It is worth noting that, while the lake doesn't have an official name at all, the unofficial name recorded by the NZ Geographic Board is Lake Taupō / Taupōmoana. While it is true that WP:NZNC only specifies that we must use a macron when one is in the official name, I think that - given all other instances of the word use Taupō over Taupo - there are sufficient grounds to also move the name of the lake. This is also consistent with the recent shift in New Zealand English to use macrons on Māori words where they are required. Turnagra (talk) 04:08, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. Having reviewed recent news articles [2][3], as well as nGrams, "Lake Taupo", not "Lake Taupō", appears to be the common name. While recognizing that WP:NZNC does allow common name to be overridden under different circumstances, we should look to formally alter that guideline to allow moves like this, rather than make them without broad consensus. BilledMammal (talk) 11:19, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

• For clarity, are you saying that the NZNC for macrons doesn't have broad consensus or this wouldn't?

Also, for what it's worth, I can attest that "Taupō" is common usage in spoken English, as the macron indicates a longer vowel sound which is consistent with the pronunciation. Turnagra (talk) 18:45, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

• I'm saying that NZNC doesn't apply to this situation as "Lake Taupō" is not an official name; nothing more, nothing less. Thank you for your input in regards to your experience of how the word is pronounced, but unfortunately it is not sufficient to support such a move as we need evidence that others can review; written documents or similar. BilledMammal (talk) 00:20, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support Most media outlets have been using the macron since 2018 or thereabouts, although macron use isn’t consistent. Yet it’s dominant enough that this establishes the common name and the lack of an official name is thus secondary. Schwede66 18:03, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support, clearly the correct way to spell Taupō, and keeps spelling consistent with that of the city. The article on Taupo District should also be nominated for moving to Taupō District, and similarly for Taupo District Council as the council calls itself "Taupō District Council" and promotes the district as "Great Lake Taupō". Since it's an unofficial name, I would not support use of the dual name Lake Taupō / Taupōmoana in article titles at this point.-gadfium 20:54, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support. There is a well established convention that for words of Māori origin we indicate long vowels by use of macrons. Taupō is a word of Māori origin and has a long 'o'. I see no good reason why we should write it without a macron, as though it had a short 'o'. The relevant 2 or 3 sentences at WP:NZNC are misformulated, in my opinion, and I strongly agree with BilledMammal that they should be formally altered to allow moves like this. That would formally strengthen the use of macrons, where appropriate. I know what I think WP:NZNC should say and would be happy to draft a change. Nurg (talk) 10:38, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

• My thinking about WP:NZNC is that its wording should distinguish between (a) the convention of using macrons to indicate long vowels, and (b) how to determine whether a vowel is long, including guidance on utilising the New Zealand Gazetteer as a source. Nurg (talk) 03:29, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

• Yeah I'd be in favour of something to clean that up a bit - might be worth writing something up as a starter? Turnagra (talk) 09:05, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

• Support for consistency with the town. I don’t have strong opinions on either spelling, but I don’t see a good reason to spell the two places differently. I do also find it absurd that NCNZ’s unusual preferences for official names have given us the lake without the macron, and the town with.

Further, the pronunciation should have nothing to do with this decision. I can attest by anecdote that non-Māori speakers are fully capable of pronouncing a macroned vowel short. English just doesn’t tend to care about accents from other languages (a café doesn’t become a “caf” when the accent is skipped). — HTGS (talk) 10:06, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Macrons in lead

Making a discussion here per the guidance on WP:Edit Warring. HTGS has re-added the macronless spelling to the lead multiple times, which I believe isn't worth having - especially with wording that implies it's also a correct spelling. Other pages with macrons do not do this (See, for example, Lake Wānaka, Lake Ōhau, Tūrangi or Whangārei) and it only serves to confuse readers about whether or not a macron is needed. We don't start the article for Hanmer Springs by saying (also called Hamner Springs) so I don't know why we'd list an incorrect and outdated spelling in this instance. Turnagra (talk) 18:12, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

I think the difference between this article and the lakes and towns you have listed is that Lake Taupō does not have an official name. The New Zealand Gazetteer lists it as Lake Taupō / Taupōmoana, and of course there are lots of references to it as Lake Taupo, and that's not likely to change rapidly unless an official name is adopted. I think it is okay, although not entirely necessary, to include the macronless spelling in the article, and we should probably include Taupōmoana as well.-gadfium 20:33, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

To be clear, I am not anti-macron. I just don't see the need to remove the alternate spelling entirely. I have no intention of emphasising it, nor moving the page or retitling it. Keep in mind that parentheticals in the lead are flat-out ignored by many interfaces.

Whether a subject is officially named or not, the usage of the name should drive our decision making. The lake is clearly referred to without the macron with enough frequency that the above page move was not trivial. It's listed in dictionaries without mention of a macron (Collins, dictionary.com) and used in official and commercial contexts with alternating usages ([4], [5]), so I don't think it's at all inappropriate to give readers both spellings. If we were a dictionary I would submit much the same language as we currently have; we are here to inform readers, after all, not to tell them what to do. As for consistency, I don't see a reason we shouldn't give certain topics both spellings if they are both in reasonably common use in English contexts. That is, I would add the same note at Wanaka, but wouldn't suggest that tā moko or pōwhiri need alternate spellings (though apparently pā is spelled without the macron enough in English that the page needs the same note).

(And sorry everyone, I actually didn't notice how many reversions we'd gone through there. For future, Turnagra, BRD is better etiquette than 3RR.) — HTGS (talk) 23:45, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

I think my concern with it is that the wording implies that both spellings are correct and up-to-date, whereas recent sources are far more likely to use the macron exclusively. I could probably live with some wording along the lines of formerly spelt Taupo if we had to have something - but I do also think that no-one is going to think that Taupō and Taupo are two different things, so its presence is a bit redundant. Turnagra (talk) 03:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Once the spelling is archaic I will happily be the first to change this page to say that. But that is probably five or ten years off. Don’t be in such a hurry; if the change is going to happen, it will happen. It’s not Wikipedia’s job to push change, or to predict the future. At the moment, people still spell it Taupo without censure or correction, so we only have to reflect that. The “correct” spelling is given absolute primacy in the title and lead, so I’m not totally sure what the big deal is. — HTGS (talk) 00:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

I tend to agree with HTGS on this one. The macron-less spelling should stay in the lead for now. As an aside Taupōmoana probably needs to be there as an alternative spelling too so I'll add that. Revert if it's controversial. --Spekkios (talk) 22:07, 4 November 2021 (UTC)