Talk:Lancaster, Lancashire/Archive 1

Archive 1

Move?

I'd like to see other editor's opinions before I go ahead with a formal request move poll. I don't really care about the page name much, but at the moment it goes against conventions. If going by the general conventions of UK geography it should be "Lancaster, Lancashire" as is the case for other British settlements needing disambiguation (with some Welsh exceptions as Welsh counties are confusing!). However, if you object to that on the grounds that it overdisambiguates (something the guidelines recommend against) the page should be at "Lancaster, United Kingdom". Joe D (t) 17:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

yep, move it. The only reason I haven't moved it myself is because so many pages point at it where it is. There are only a few others left like this. Morwen - Talk 11:37, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Agreed; move it, please. I think "Lancaster, Lancashire" would be best, but "Lancaster, United Kingdom" would be fine too. Not the existing "Lancaster, England", though.--Ministry 12:52, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed; move it, please, as above Skull 'n' Femurs 01:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Done now. Morwen - Talk 08:37, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

What The

Citation for the Dickens fact? Pliny 23:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

New photo (location)

would quite like to delete the image showing the location of lancs and replace with this photo

http://www.lancs.ac.uk/travel/travel.htm which has already been uploaded as "lancslocation001" much nicer and clearer. What do u think?

Zewill 12:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The current image is the standard for locations, it seems. The dot is superimposed on it according to the co-ordinates given. The one you've linked to would present copyright issues. As such, the current image should remain in place. - Dudesleeper 14:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Freaks?

Could someone please explain the reason for "freaks" appearing in the "Features of Lancaster" section? The link directs to a page about a film on which I see no relevance to Lancaster... Please clear this up or if it is somehow a case of vandalism remove it. Thank you.--90.240.26.85 15:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Music

The Keith Baxter link is definately not the Keith Baxter referred to. It is arguable whether he is that well known, the band was though.

Fixed that. --MorganaFiolett 09:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Why this obsession with stating that The Yorkshire House is Lancaster's main music venue. It's not.

Get it Loud in Libraries is an award-winning and unique project that is perfect for inclusion on Wikipedia. It's been on BBC and is regularly written about in the press. Last time I looked, the Yorkshire House isn't.

In reply - no venue should be stated as 'prime'. This sounds like you are connected to a commercial operation. This has no place on Wikipedia, which is in no way a forum for banal local competition or advertisement. Clearly there are diverse sorts of live music available to see in Lancaster. Wikipedia is neither the forum to argue for or against particular genres of music, obviously. Clearly The Yorkshire House regularly hosts acts that are reviewed in the national press - and acts from overseas, particularly touring acts from the United States.

Transport

Perhaps a section about transport could be added? I'm looking somewhat here for graduate school, and wanted to see what transport in the city would be like. So obviously I have a selfish investment in it, but I think it would be nice to have in general! matt91486 04:23, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Various University related corrections.

This may be considered innappropriate, particularly as I am new, and given the likely propensity of univeristy student contributors, but (according to Lancaster City Council's Employment Monitoring Report, link www.lancaster.gov.uk) the University is not (and indeed never has been) the area's largest employer (it's the NHS). Also it is not fact, but marketing, to state that "infolab" (a building that has not yet been established 5 years), is the most excellent centre for IT in the whole of North West England, which includes Manchester and Liverpool(I appreciate that the phrasing is ambiguous and that is probably not the intended meaning, but it is what is conveyed to a non-student). Finally, St Martin's College is a multi-campus educational institution likely within the next 18 months to acheive university status, and teaches more students in areas other than teacher training than it teaches in teacher training. Should these aspects not be corrected?--Necessaryx 19:44, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything in the PDF linked to.. do you have a page number? As for Infolab, the article says it is "North West's Centre of Excellence for Information and Communication Technologies" - this doesn't mean the building is "excellent". As for St. Martin's college, if it does indeed get Univursity status, then the text can be changed. I think it should stay as it is for now. -- 9cds^(talk) 19:53, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Page 14 table 5, Employees at Lancs Uni 2,200; employees at the hospitals, 2,500. In terms of factual research, stating that something is a "Centre of Excellence for ICT" is not objective. Stating that, say xyz Government Body designated something to be Centre of Excellence which means abc, may be a different way of putting it. Re SMC, It wasn't the university status that i considered misleading, it's the "teacher training" part, when the college actually trains more nurses, allied proffesions (i.e. physiotherapy etc.) and youth workers than teachers. --Necessaryx 20:25, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, with the facts there, then there should be no reason why the "largest employer" line can't go. The infolab line should stay, this is how he building is described: subjective or not. May as well remove the line about SMC as well :) -- 9cds^(talk) 21:13, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

The term "New North West ICT Centre of Excellence" is the title of one press release - it's not the official description of the building, merely saying that a new 'Centre of Excellence' in the field of ICT had opened in North West England.

'Centre of Excellence' is a specific and valid jargon phrase - InfoLab21 is called a 'Centre of Excellence' irrespective of whether it is excellent (or a centre, for that matter).

Actually, the University hosts a number of 'Centres of Excellence' - should we be singling-out InfoLab21 for especial mention? Ministry 15:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

News

NEW WIKIPEDIA:WIKIPROJECT LANCASHIRE A new WikiProject about Lancashire has just opened. We are a WikiProject dedicated to improving and expanding Wikipedia's coverage of articles related to Lancashire, England. We cover the city of Preston and the boroughs of Blackpool, Blackburn with Darwen, Burnley, Chorley, Fylde, Hyndburn, Lancaster, Pendle, the Ribble Valley, Rossendale, South Ribble, West Lancashire, and Wyre., as well as all articles relevant and important to the areas, such as Blackpool Airport.

If you plan to be active in editing the articles above, or articles related to them, please add your name to the participants on the WikiProject. We discuss the project on our talk page and you are most welcome to join in the discussion there.

Follow this link to the WikiProject Lancashire page and get editing. --93gregsonl2 (talk) 18:59, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Link: WikiProject Lancashire —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93gregsonl2 (talk • contribs) 19:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

I have removed this paragraph and replaced it:

The etymology of Lancaster is derived from its large and imposing castle (the "caster" part), and the river that runs through it, the Lune (a name deriving from old Celtic sources). Language evolution from the old name of Loncastra, the castle-town on the Lune, gives the modern name of Lancaster.

No citation is given and the fact that the name refers to the present castle is misleading The name existed before the castle and the common 'caster'/'chester' suffix in British placenames is well known to refer to Roman not medieval sites. Psammead (talk) 20:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If you'd happened to visit the Roman ruins in Lancaster, as well as the city museum you would realises that the paragraph you so hastily deleted was indeed correct. When I get time I will find a valid reference, but as for now I would consider restoring it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.129.189 (talk) 18:37, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Requested move (October 2010)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Speedy close - WP:POINT nomination. Nilfanion (talk) 12:34, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

---

Lancaster, Lancashire → Lancaster — This is the English encyclopedia, so there will probably be a greater number of people looking for this city than all the others put togeather. Homan's Copse (talk) 11:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

• This is the English [language] Wikipedia, not the English [England] Wikipedia. There are several US cities of comparable size to the English city. PC78 (talk) 11:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Speedy close; nominator appears to be making WP:POINT-y nominations in protest of the request at Talk:Dover. Powers ^T 12:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (December 2010)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Speedy decline as WP:POINT. Alpha Quadrant ^talk 19:09, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

---

Lancaster, Lancashire → Lancaster — Per WP:NCGN#England if there was no prime topic this would be moved to Lancaster, England, but when most people say Lancaster, they would mean this Lancaster. Crouch, Swale talk to me My contribs 14:58, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

• Lancaster→Lancaster (disambiguation)
• Oppose. No proof, or even any attempt to show that there is a primary topic. Speedy close as WP:POINT. Why are those opposed expected to provide proof when then nominator seems to be immune to that? Also trying to use a single country naming guideline to override every other guideline and policy is insane. Note the previous nomination above. (fix heading to correctly direct editors to the current discussion). Vegaswikian (talk) 18:38, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

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Pronunciation

How do you pronounce "Lancaster"? 98.150.166.112 (talk) 08:06, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Something like LAN-kuh-ster Spiderone (talk) 11:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

As a Lancastrian it is pronounced LAN - CAST - ER not the strange lankuhster. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.54.208 (talk) 11:55, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Alencastro

Does anybody know why, when the "Other place names" feature is activated on google earth, does Lancaster come up as being called Alencastro and Alencaster. I have never heard the city called these names before and i wondered if they had got it wrong? Pinster2001 14:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I Googled Alencastro and Alencaster and a few of the search results suggested that these are names for Lancaster in some other languages. However, none of other interwiki links on Lancaster indicated names other than "Lancaster". --A bit iffy 10:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The city now is located on the site of the Roman's Long Camp - hence Lan Castra which pre-dates the claimed anglos-saxon settlement on the same site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.54.208 (talk) 11:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Lancaster category

There is a discussion at Category talk:Lancaster#Split category? about renaming or reorganising that category. -- Dr Greg  talk  23:04, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: The apparent result, not moved, is a surprise, but it can certainly be brought up again. It can though, be pointed out that there are about three times as many google views of Lancaster, Lancashire. Apteva (talk) 01:26, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

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Lancaster, Lancashire → Lancaster, England – per WP:UKPLACE. Lancaster is a variant of Lancashire, aka County of Lancaster. Mhockey (talk) 17:55, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose. If the article were named "Lancaster, Lancastershire" or "Lancaster, Lancaster", you would have a point, but it isn't. -- Dr Greg  talk  22:58, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. Not the same as Lincoln, Lincolnshire example in WP:UKPLACE. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:26, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose. For the reasons given above. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 14:01, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

• The point was raised here when UKPLACE was revised in 2010, and there was a view, not pursued then, that Lancaster should fall within the new policy. "Lancashire" is just the modern form of "Lancastershire", which is why it seems to me that the city and county are variants of the same name, like Lincoln, Lincolnshire. That was the reason why Lancaster, Lancashire was never a correct postal address back in the days when we had postal counties (Lancaster was a special post town, not because of its size but because its name came from the county).--Mhockey (talk) 15:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Population Error

Since when does Lancaster have a population of eight million? Can somebody please find ou tthe real population — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.178.151 (talk) 14:13, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

This error has now been corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.249.107 (talk) 18:35, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Duke

Is the queen "duke of Lancaster", as mentioned in the article, or duchess of Lancaster? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.226.160 (talk) 17:36, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Her Majesty the Queen, Queen Elizabeth II is indeed the Duke of Lancaster. The reason is historical and is probably the only male title inherited which retains its male description. When toasting the Queen's health Lancashire men and Women give the toast in the following words: "The Queen, Duke of Lancaster, God Bless her." Despite living somewhere else we always use the terminology when we toast our monarch - much to the annoyance of those from another county.The Geologist (talk) 13:38, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Your annoying tradition is bourne out by Debretts. It seems "Up Yours Brenda" has fallen out of fashion. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:09, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

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Lancaster as a county town/City

I know technically the City of Lancaster contains Morecambe I feel that for this article Lancaster should be described as a city as when it was granted city status it was meant to be granted to Lancaster proper not the local government district and saying it is just simply a county town is a bit pedantic. C. 22468 Talk to me 22:15, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

@Coolguy22468:. Yes, I agree. As you drive into Lancaster - the city - there's a sign saying 'Welcome to the City of Lancaster'. Everyone knows Lancaster is a city, not a town. It's only here at Wikipedia that the pedants get their way. Should we change it in the lead? 31.52.161.37 (talk) 22:23, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

But the term "county town" has a specific meaning and I can't remember anyone use the phrase "county city". As I see it, a county town can also be a city. -- Dr Greg  talk  23:57, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Fair point. I wonder if we could use something along the lines of the introduction to Durham, England? Also, there's probably no need for the mention of City of Lancaster in the very first line of the article. It's just a local government area. I know this has been mentioned before, but to refer to this latter entity as 'The' City of Lancaster causes confusion. The real city, Lancaster, Lancashire, should have 'The' in its name, whereas the local government district should not. Hardly any local government districts are introduced as 'The'. 31.52.161.37 (talk) 19:15, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Calunium into Lancaster, Lancashire

as suggested by Helmshore. - better covered in the main article. DGG ( talk ) 04:13, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I suspect that "Calunium" is a recently made-up name. I can't find any evidence for its use other than on a couple of blogs and unreliable wiki-type sites written by users. Indeed the newly-created article Calunium itself tells us that the name of the fort is unknown. Most of this new article seems to have been copied word-for-word from the articles Lancaster, Lancashire and Lancaster Castle, without properly copying the references, and I'm not convinced that it contributes anything that isn't already better covered in those articles. Best I think to merge back, if there is anything new worth merging. --Helmshore (talk) 14:49, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

There are separate articles on all the remains of Roman forts in the UK. The infobox is very specific and if used, would be a big distraction in Lancaster. I don't see a good reason this site can't be covered in a separate article like the rest. MB 00:05, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I see no reason to add Calunium to Lancaster. Assuming that Calunium was on the site of the later Lancaster, which is uncertain, there were a good 600 years between them. Bmcln1 (talk) 19:41, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the name probably bogus, but also agree that a dedicated article is justified. I've just finished tidying it up and now I'm going to move it to Lancaster Roman Fort and remove the merge banner from this article. TiB chat 21:22, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Cathedral city

Lancaster is not a cathedral city. The term designates a status or class; it is not simply a descriptive term. To quote City status in the United Kingdom, "...in England and Wales it was traditionally given to towns with diocesan cathedrals." This was the case at least up until the late 19th century. The term thus distinguishes cities which have an Anglican cathedral. Lancaster has a 20th-century Catholic cathedral; this is often mistaken for an Anglican cathedral.

The dictionary definition of cathedral city at Wiktionary:

"A title awarded to a town in the United Kingdom which, before letters patent, held city status by virtue of having a cathedral within its bounds."

Letters patent were not awarded to towns with Catholic cathedrals. The link between cathedrals and city status ceased in the 19th century. Notwithstanding the fact that Lancaster itself is a town, not a city, the City of Lancaster district was designated as a city in 1937, not conditional on having a cathedral.

I suppose the crux of the issue comes down to citations. If you can provide a reliable source that refers to Lancaster as a cathedral city then I have no objection. --Hazhk (talk) 18:05, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Agree with Hazhk. The change to Cathedral City was done only earlier this year after years of stable reference to it only being the county town / city. No reference was added to back up the claim at that time, so why would it require a source to remove the unsupported claim? I will find the edit in question, but I think it was April sometime when I had a glance yesterday. Koncorde (talk) 20:29, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Here are the relevant changes: this edit by IP changed the text to "a cathedral city" which diverts to City status in the United Kingdom. This was unsupported by any source. a few weeks later CoolGuy changed it to be "City" alone while referencing in his summary Cathedral City in England normally means Church of England. This compacted one error with another as it now erroneously conflated the city status of City District with the Town. it was changed without explanation by RailwayJG and it seems to have been stuck like that ever since. Koncorde (talk) 20:46, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, on the edit summary I said Bradford was a town. It seems I am mistaken and the borough was made a town, and since then they have named the district the City of Bradford even though the City of Bradford district contains areas outside the borough that is a city. A nesting doll situation there.

As for council names etc. They can call themselves what they like, and often do. Koncorde (talk) 06:56, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

So have self reverted as this historic society article seems to suggest the application/request was made on the towns behalf, with no mention of the broader district. So I will check the charter as it looks like somewhere along the line on a few related pages the conflation has inferred one over the other. Koncorde (talk) 07:10, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Comment Bradford was created as a city in 1897 when the Church of St Peter was elevated to cathedral status, an accolade it retains today. It used to have a Diocese, though no longer. So not sure if it should be a "Cathedral City" or not, but it is a city. Just for info. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 07:18, 16 January 2021 (UTC)