Talk:Languages of Wales
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editBecause of this redirect "Welsh Language" now includes "Welsh English" and "Welsh Romani Language" in this category. However, "Welsh Language" is a category for the Welsh Language per se (ie Cymraeg) and should categorise this language only. Romani and English are different languages (ie they are not Celtic). Therefore, "Languages of Wales" needs reinstating as a separate category, so that it can group the various languages of Wales, which may not be linguistically related, but which are found in Wales.(Vouliagmeni (talk) 22:16, 23 October 2009 (UTC))
Cymricisation
edit'Cymricisation' redirects here but I don't see that it is treated on this page. Geopersona (talk) 08:31, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011
editTitus, why did you revert my change to what the source says? Welsh is NOT treated equally in Wales as English, so please do not pretend it is. No less concerning is the sources say that. Please explain. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 18:52, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
- Wikipedia generally requires the use of secondary sources, rather than our own personal interpretation of this original source. In this case, I included both the original legislation and as well as the Welsh Government's interpretation of it (updated). If you can find evidence of a reliable secondary source which gives a different perspective, it may be suitable as an addition under this heading. Thanks. Titus Gold (talk) 00:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
The Welsh govt source, which is close enough to being a RSS for this article, says:
- "The Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 (the Measure) modernised the existing legal framework regarding the use of the Welsh language in the delivery of public services."
It says official status is restricted. What is confusing about that? My comment that English has unrestricted use is OR, yes, but it is so obvious it should not demand a source. This is what I mean by blatant misrepresentation. The act itself is also totally clear about the official status of Welsh being restricted so requiring a RSS is not needed. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 01:53, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
- Titus, on reflection, the word 'blatant' could imply 'planning to mislead', which is not what I meant. I have therefore removed that word. Seeing as nobody else has posted yet except for you, and you want it changed, I don't see any reason why I should not change it. I still think it is misleading to say that Welsh has equal status with English in Wales, without qualifying that statement. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 06:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
- Roger 8 Roger, I agree that the source limits the extent of the measure to delivery of public services, and, for instance, shop keepers and other such businesses are under no such legal obligation sin the delivery of their services, which is something that could certainly be teased out in this article. However I don't think I would support reverting to the wording "Limited official status". That could be misunderstood when the intent of the measure is to put Welsh on an equal footing with English in official capacities (particularly in delivery). Perhaps we could expand and unpack this a little more so that a reader can see what the measure does do (make Welsh an official language with equal status with English in delivery of all public services) and what it doesn't do (it doesn't compel private sector usage). Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
- Titus, on reflection, the word 'blatant' could imply 'planning to mislead', which is not what I meant. I have therefore removed that word. Seeing as nobody else has posted yet except for you, and you want it changed, I don't see any reason why I should not change it. I still think it is misleading to say that Welsh has equal status with English in Wales, without qualifying that statement. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 06:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
A Measure of the National Assembly for Wales to make provision about the official status of the Welsh language in Wales; to provide for a Welsh Language Partnership Council; to establish the Office of Welsh Language Commissioner; to provide for an Advisory Panel to the Welsh Language Commissioner; to make provision about promoting and facilitating the use of the Welsh language and treating the Welsh language no less favourably than the English language; to make provision about standards relating to the Welsh language (including duties to comply with those standards, and rights arising from the enforceability of those duties); to make provision about investigation of interference with the freedom to use the Welsh language; to establish a Welsh Language Tribunal; to abolish the Welsh Language Board and Welsh language schemes; and for connected purposes.
This Measure, passed by the National Assembly for Wales on 7 December 2010 and approved by Her Majesty in Council on 9 February 2011, enacts the following provisions:– To start off with, this is the purpose of the 2011 act from its introductory text. [1]
I agree, some middle ground approach would be better. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 13:31, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with most of what @Sirfurboy is saying here. Anyone is welcome to make additions to the page as long as they are reliable secondary sources and not their own interpretation of legislation, the legislation being what I would consider being the primary source. Titus Gold (talk) 13:43, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
What do you/anyone think the intro text means and its intention? It isn't straightforward. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 13:58, 3 December 2022 (UTC)